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| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 Member |  Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 | The difference in your example, Zeim, is that (in the previous version of) the 'Delay' action did not require any expression of what would cause or when you wanted to come back into the order. Ready requires a declaration of what you are 'waiting for'.
I am not sure that should make a difference, but that may just be me <g>
MikeD
| | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | I totally understand Crawford. What it eliminates is chaos for inexperienced DMs. It's a pain even for experienced DMs. The only real difference is that you must declare what you are going to do on your turn. You can't say "I'll wait to see how this all unfolds before deciding what to do".
I used the ready action for Lingo in Gencon as a standard operating procedure. Lingo never jumped into a melee first even though he had initiative most of the time. His "readied action" was to fire an arrow at the first enemy that had one of Lingo's allies adjacent to the target. This was to take advantage of his sneak dice. Often times it would be the Amnon's imp Able that was the ally. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 Member | | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 | Sorry, I don't see 'delay' as a problem for GMs that have had any experience running ... or maybe it is just because I am such an =extraordinary= GM <chuckle>
A great 'solution' to the 'problem' Nep <wink>
MikeD
| | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | Mike,
Most of the games I play in have good to excellent experienced DMs. I played in a game at Gencon with a DM that reminded me how lucky I was with my DMs. He had trouble handling initiative. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 | Only correction to your post a couple up, Nep, is according to how I read what you wrote you don't "jump back in" to the order anymore. You always go on your initiative roll, even if you "Ready an action" that lets you go later in the round. You never give up your spot. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | Not a correction - exactly what I said. You must declare your action on your turn. Your turn in the order doesn't ever change. But you can give up your spot.
If, in my example, no ally moves next to an enemy, Lingo's trigger never occurs and he loses his triggered action for the round. | | | | | Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,093 Likes: 10 Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator | | Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,093 Likes: 10 | I can see how it simplifies things mechanically. Honestly I think it isn't that big a,deal. But I get the purity of intention, which they obviously were going for. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 Member | | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 | Yes, I can see how that might make things easier for folks that write their combat initiative order down on paper or a board. I have seen a lot of 'contraptions' designed to deal with that in the previous versions when readied/delayed changed the order. I just used 3x5 cards which can easily be rearranged to deal with that <shrug>
And I will admit that the way 'readied' actions work in this version ... leaving initiative order unchanged is not 'unreasonable' ... just different from what I have been doing for =many= years. Old farts hate change <wink> So I don't =really= mind that change.
The loss of delay seems ... arbitrary? ... unreasonable? ... maybe 'unexplained' is the best term since there =could= be a reason for it that I have not heard about. In any event, since that is the new reality, I guess I will need to accept it as well <g>
MikeD
| | | | | Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,307 Likes: 1 Administrator | | Administrator Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,307 Likes: 1 | I am away for a vacation with some internet access for the next 9 days. Ghost my character if needed. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,066 Likes: 9 Wobbly Headed Administrator | | Wobbly Headed Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,066 Likes: 9 | Cool, enjoy, Dugan. Going anywhere nice? | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | Just an FYI for the "N" game folks, I made a mistake by saying Jaliera goes instead of Kallista goes. Because of my mistake I have to delete a bunch of posts and do a complete rewind. Zeim (of course) pulled out the big canons and that happens before Jaliera fires her arrow and calls for help, before the ruffians attack, before Chandan hears anything. It doesn't pay to try and cobble things together and since Jaliera missed on her attack, we'll just rewind.
Sorry. My fault. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 | OK, so since we're running this as an open test/pilot I have a question for the group.
In earlier versions of D&D once you failed at a roll (like Open Locks) you could not try again until you gained a level.
In 5e I am not sure if you can just try and try and try until you roll the number you need, but it seems to be a bit unbalanced to allow that as what's the point of rolling then? All it is then is not IF you succeed, but how many rolls it takes until you eventually get what you need.
It's not that important whether or not Lingo can open the lock on the door, but I wanted to get a consensus ruling (or someone who can find it in the books). | | | | | Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,093 Likes: 10 Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator | | Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,093 Likes: 10 | Personally if there is no pressure, time or something else, just let the PC do it. Not everything needs a roll. But then I am a different sort of a GM as I am sure everyone has noticed from some of my other posts.  | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,066 Likes: 9 Wobbly Headed Administrator | | Wobbly Headed Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,066 Likes: 9 | I'd take the 13th Age approach. Fail forward.
If the PCs are going to smash down the door anyway, if the lock's not successfully picked, you might as well give the rogue a bit of limelight, have them pick the lock. The failure can effect something else. The monsters on the other side get a first round situational bonus, frex. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 Member | | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,133 Likes: 5 | I have never thought that 'fail once and you were done' rule made sense for everything. For the lock pick example, it feels like saying that if you missed hitting the orc with the first swing of your axe then you cannot try to hit that orc again ... until you level. <shrug>
Now I think it =does= make sense for other things, though. I can see it applying to knowledge rolls, for example. You just don't have that 'key bit of knowledge' and won't until 'learn more'.
MikeD
| | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | It's a great question but it's addressed clearly in the rules. Page 237 of the DMG:
MULTIPLE ABILITY CHECKS
Sometimes a character fails an ability check and wants to try again. In some cases, a character is free to do so; the only real cost is the time it takes. With enough attempts and enough time, a character should eventually succeed at the task. To speed things up, assume that a character spending ten times the normal amount of time needed to complete a task automatically succeeds at that task. However, no amount of repeating the check allows a character to turn an impossible task into a successful one.
In other cases, failing an ability check makes it impossible to make the same check to do the same thing again. For example, a rogue might try to trick a town guard into thinking the adventurers are undercover agents of the king. If the rogue loses a contest of Charisma (Deception) against the guard's Wisdom (Insight), the same lie told again won't work. The characters can come up with a different way to get past the guard or try the check again against another guard at a different gate. But you might decide that the initial failure makes those checks more difficult to pull off.
-Nep
| | | | | Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,307 Likes: 1 Administrator | | Administrator Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,307 Likes: 1 | Neptune, just to let you know I would have done things differently had I known I could not take the swords away from the skeletons. An old post led me to believe the skeletons stopped before they laid their hands on swords lying on the ground.
DM
As Kriv spoke, the skeletons froze in place and took their bony hands off of the hilts of the swords they had moved to. It seems the word did what Inaro promised it would do.
But leave things as it is, and we'll play it thru. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | Sorry about that. You'll finish them off in no time. This post of mine could have been phrased better. "The skeleton's hands moved towards the hilts of the swords which they wore on their waist." would have been a better way to phrase it. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,616 Likes: 59 Wizop Administrator | | Wizop Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,616 Likes: 59 | What is the situation with regard to healing in our group? Thanks! | | | | | Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,307 Likes: 1 Administrator | | Administrator Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,307 Likes: 1 | Davroar has used up 3 of his 6 spells since entering the Redbrand hideout. I remember someone had one or two healing potions we found, but not sure if they were consumed at one point. | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,066 Likes: 9 Wobbly Headed Administrator | | Wobbly Headed Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,066 Likes: 9 | Jaliera has two healing potions, Kriv has one. By my count. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 | | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,616 Likes: 59 Wizop Administrator | | Wizop Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,616 Likes: 59 | Thanks! But we have an ability to heal ourselves once or twice a day. Neptune did explain it earlier but I have read through 20+ pages of OOC without finding it!  Hoping that Neptune can repeat it and also know what we have used today? | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 Moderator | | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,984 Likes: 1 | You have "Hit Dice" and I'll have to look back to see how many you have used. Every player has as many "hit dice" as levels. So you all have 2. You use them in a short rest and get them back after a long rest. The type of dice varies by class. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,163 Likes: 8 | | | |
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