DreamLyrics™ Play-by-Post Forums Hall of Fame - Latest Top 10 completed games HWD: The Heartwood HWD: OOC Chatter

Hihi!

The next set of post will be dinners; it is presumed that Kadri, Cesare and Mikal will be at the Amber Inn, Bekkah, Dean and Dazi at the cathedral. Darian and Longtooth - greatly missed - should be considered undertaking their own affairs, where ever they wish to be, until real life allows Pam's return.

If you wish to do anything before dinner, please let me know and post those actions

Is the white horse reference referring to the unicorn? Or is there another in our group. Don't remember seeing a description of mounts?

Thanks!

Are you people fracking kidding me? SERIOUSLY????????

Oh. My. Gods.

I give up. I quit. That's it. I can't take it.

I know your unicorn isn't white.. I wasn't sure if Katya/Wolf is being oblique.

I think the question Kel really wants to ask is what color is Romana's white horse?

Dancer has always been a white mare!

That isn't quite the question Kel wanted to ask, but that will do as a second or third or sixth question, sure.

Thanks, didn't remember that.

Has the bar thread drawn to a close? Sounds like it but wasn't sure.

All (but mostly Zeim):

Super OCD Woman apologizes for not keeping the Hive Mind apprised of all the OCD things they should be remembering. Apparently Super OCD Woman is neglecting HWD in favor of silly things like work. The nerve of some people! I would chastise that part of my brain except that might cause Super OCD Woman to neglect work to focus on rearranging her books in Dewey Decimal order after Wolf has made a mess of them by TOUCHING THEM. (He still doesn't believe in the OCD. It's not like it's a fairy or a unicorn, for goodness sake.)

Sorry. My bad.

Kel (and Super OCD Woman)

Leaving for business trip. Don't expect to be on-line again until Sunday 10/4.

Wolf - I'd like to request a favor. I cannot speak for others, but for myself I have not understood a single GM long post since we started this game. I completely depend upon Kel to translate for me what is going on and what it means.

I am talking mainly about the initial posts where we enter a new place or setting. The ones that consist almost exclusively of snippets of conversation we overhear from people around us.

They make no sense to me and I simply do not have the time or energy to try to track down and infer what the implications of those statements we hear mean, cross reference them with the history and culture threads, and come up with anything meaningful.

If it was not for Kel telling me what was going on I would likely have dropped out of the game from frustration some time back.

Now the GM has to enjoy the game as well, and if you enjoy creating those posts I would not ask you to stop. But would it be possible for you to add an "OOC" summary at the end that summarizes the whole thing into a:

"Here is what you see. Here is what you need to do and where you need to go to advance the game"?

Oh, and a tactical map now and then would be unbelievably helpful for me.

Just a request. I don't know if others have this same issue.

well this is interesting.

finally someone's asked me a question.

thank you.

an thats said honestly and sincerely.

this what the OOC chatter should be for; i m always happy and glad to field questions here, especially concerning the length and breath of the world, or even the exactly what do you mean.



that's actually very important. just as you have your frustrations, so do i. the more i get excited by what you folks are doing, the more i , in turn invest in my posts and posting. lately work has taken a big hit on my time, and my midweek posts and lunchtime post have taken a big hit on that. but more importantly, i have been trying hard to maintain my enjoyment of the game too; it has been extremely frustrating because for me a post needs to be more than a simple narrative exercise - its all about stepping into a world, becoming immersed in it, to have it living and breathing - so when you walk into a bar, its like walking into a bar - noisy, colorful and full of life.

language, word choice and the crafting of the scene are the only tools i have to do that. thats where my fun comes from.

when i open a scene like that, it is an attempt to show a full world, where things are happening beyond your immediate environ - to go back to the bar scene, its like walking into a bar and overhearing two people talking about their cars. now there are a few things you can discern from such random conversations:

1) they do give a hint of things that may be going on locally
2) they may be things that may be hooks to another adventure
3) most probably they are bits of local gossip that are there for just color and flavor

I will only, very rarely, hide something critical to the play of the game.

they may give a hint on how folks are acting around you or feel about something. if a named npc makes a statement, it'd probably worth listening to.

and more importantly, if one of those comments piques your interest, never be afraid to interrupt and ask whoever said that to explain.

now a very important thing to remember -will doing so work? Most time but not all times. sometimes it will blow up in your face. we once had a player go all 'mighty imperial' in the fisher's tavern here in talesan's village. that did not end well. usually, if you read back, there's always warnings that things are about to go south. so while they may not be critical for actual information, these snippets of conversation are best used to get a handle of the tone of the situation - friendly, hostile, uncaring, caring, distracted. if the goodwives are gossiping about romance things are probably fine - you don't have to cross reference who is getting married to who - if folks are happy and celebratory it's a good thing, a chance for a free meal ... if they are speaking all hushed about the bride and groom's families not liking one another, you might want to skip the reception. that's the important thing to take out of them.

and if they blow up? never take it personally. if it is vital to the story, there will usually be another chance or another way to solve it. most of the time when i present a problem to you folks i have no idea how to resolve it - i let you folks figure that out and as long as it isn't a bad idea, go with it.



I can work better on that - and lay out the critical things in a more definite manner. I'd prefer not to do it in an OOC manner, but I understand what you are looking for and can work to summarize - no that will take to long - sum up in a more concise manner.

i will take exception to part of that statement - "Here is what you see. Here is what you need to do and where you need to go to advance the game". I can do that. the heartwood has enough documentation and depth so that pretty much anywhere you go there will be something going on. consider that the default.

it is the equivalent of walking into a tavern and being told there is a group of orcs in the nearby cave that need killing. traditional D+D adventuring.

but it is not the only game in town.

i would much rather be responding to what you do than creating things for you to respond to. i admit the latest turns of events have confused me greatly, and thus, seeing little action in terms of direction and goals from the group, i have pushed another tale to the forefront. and one that - while it draws from the depth of the worlds culture, is, at its core, a very straightforward quest.

so if mikal follows cesare, he'll probably need that nice new sword of his.

as for a tactical map, if you enter the vestibule you have a choice. I can provide the tactical map - or like any good table top game - one of you folks can get out the graph paper! this is actually a response to something i was told was wanted - a straightforward, black and white fantasy adventure. and then for someone else i custom created a scholarly aspect of the adventure so they could participate without poking folks.

and thats very important.

i'd rather react to you folks. but that mean you have to take an active role; if there's something you want done ... go out and do it. if there's something you'd like to see, ask me OOCly. i don't like having to spoon feed an adventure. i provide opportunities. they won't jump into your lap.

but they will be there if you choose to actively go after them.

This all makes perfect sense to me.

Sometimes Wolf, I lose who is saying what. It might break things up so they don't flow as prettily, but even something as simple as:

Serving girls: "The master seems quite on edge today"
Other serving girl: "Well, have you seen his wife. There is no pleasing that woman."

Sometimes, I have to read it over and over and then I usually guess who is saying what, especially in a court scene with 5 or 6 people talking. If it's just two speaking back and forth, but when more get involved it's not always clear.

I know I've missed many a clue. I still think back to Lord Trey and I had 3 choices and I got it wrong twice before you finally explained it. I was convinced I was right because I even had clues that interpreted the way I did, made perfect sense.(to me at least). Now to be perfectly, I'm not very good at solving mysteries. I honestly don't mind being led by the nose at times because I still get to write my characters actions, and thoughts and so on, which I enjoy. I never enjoy having to go back through many posts to understand clues. The character may well put together the things that happened in the last few hours or day, but remember for us, those actions usually take place over months, which make it nearly impossible to remember small details. I'll try and make some notes, but unless a memory sparks something, I'll rarely go back and read 4 or 5 pages of posts.

So it's my long winded way of saying, we each need to have fun, but that fun varies greatly by person. Some people need perfect order and reasoning. (<Cough> Super OCD woman <Cough>) Some of us are super simple and will just go with the flow. So if time gets skewed, I'm fine. If characters suddenly change, no problem. Just nudge me and I'll write.

More or less. It works out alright for me, because Kadri reacts, at times, impulsively, so if I miss something and do something impulsive, it is still in character, but perhaps, even just in the ooc or in a seperate post, a simple line drawing when it comes to things like tactical maps and such. It doesn't have to be in post so to speak, just a bit of vanilla 'Here's the really important facts, ma'am' ub the OOC thread occasionally or such. I don't necessarily want to be spoonfed, but if I'm missing something that would be obvious to Kadri but is not obvious to me, perhaps a nudge?>

When I wasn’t creating fractals and listening to podcasts, I spend Saturday writing words... so many, many, many words in response to this thread.

And then I decided that most of them should just stay in my Thinking Thoughts About Stuff folder. But I do have some things that I need to say.


Mr. GM, this is a level of snark usually attained only by me. I’m surprised. (Also, I question your sincerity but mileage may vary on that point.)

My fellow players, this is exactly what I was talking about when I said I was a lone voice in the darkness. Nothing any of you ever said in any of the “Hive Mind” threads mattered one whit because my voice could not be heard. Yes, I carried your various and sundry concerns to the GM. All of it fell on deaf ears. No, not exactly. But in effect? Yes. Exactly that.

Now, the GM said that he did have his reasons for ignoring what I was saying, and he thought his reasons were good reasons. But as it turns out, it decreased the Fun Factor for all of us and, therefore, were not especially good reasons. However, what’s done is done.

The core problem in all of this is right here:


On the surface, you would think that the GM and I would be in complete agreement. And if you thought that... you’d be wrong.

First, because I believe that the GM has an obligation beyond immersing the players in the world. The GM has an obligation to give enough information to the players so that the players can make decisions. If the GM paints a glorious panorama of a fascinating world and the players are confused, then what was the point of painting the picture? While I’m always happy to translate Wolfspeak into English for my fellow players, I shouldn’t have to do the translating. The GM should be writing in English.

Second, because one of the deals the GM and I made when I returned from hiatus was that I would proofread his posts before they go up.

As I said, I believe a GM has an obligation to convey information to his or her players. Maybe I hung out with the wrong crowd back in the 70s and 80s when I was playing D&D and taking on the role of Dungeonmaster myself. Paint a picture, but make it a Renoir and not a Dali. Never, ever, ever create an Escheresque painting! Make the rules of the world known and available at all times; above all, ensure that the rules of your world remains internally consistent.

Now I’m going to put on my hat of copy editor. After all, that’s what started this whole avalanche. Proofreading the Heartwood posts is exhausting. Some weeks are more exhausting than others; last week was very bad. So I asked the active players if it really mattered if I continued to proofread and copy edit the posts before they were posted by the GM. (By the way, the consensus was “yes, please.”) Some discussion in that PM led to Zeim posting the OCC that started this particular conversation. (Thank you, Z.)

On the one hand, the GM is trying to bring the world to life — something that is useful or useless, fascinating or just something to wade through, fun or not fun... it’s different things to different people. And yes, language is the only way to do that.

On the other hand, the players have a need to know what is going on around them and have a right to understand what the GM is trying to convey about the world around them.

No one is a bigger proponent of shaping the world with language than I am. With the possible exception of the GM, no one here knows the world as well as I do. But this is truly a copy editing job and not just proofreading. I have to make sure words are spelled correctly and sentences are punctuated corrected. Oh, and make sure that sentences are actually sentences.

But beyond that simple ( ) task, I try to do the sometimes impossible: keep the painting from becoming Escheresque. (Everyone please reference last week’s discussion of “hands” versus “feet” versus “handful.” ‘Nuff said.)

Unless the GM actually follows through on either making posts much clearer or adds a summary for folks who just want the Readers Digest Condensed version, that’s all I can do to help.

I also want to address another phrase that rang false for me:


This (I assume) is in reference to the dungeon crawl under the docks. Because I don’t think any of us is clear on what those other games in town might be, it might as well be the only game in town. If we can’t see beyond the painting of the world, if the attempt to immerse the players in the world obscures the very options the players supposedly have, then there really is only one game in town: whichever one you push to the forefront. You have pushed this specific story to the forefront because you didn’t get clear directions and goals from the players. You didn’t get clear directions and goals from the players because even I’m confused by Talesan’s Village (or bored... it depends on what day you ask and how you phrase the question). There were other options? It would appear as though there were not other options.

And this is exactly how players wind up feeling like they’ve been “railroaded” into doing a particular thing. (And then there’s this one: “You have Option A or Option B or Option C. Decide what you will do!” This becomes highly frustrating when the only option I can choose is Option C because Options A and B are wildly out of character.)


Yeah, definitely not on the same page... and now I’m rethinking my position that we’re in the same book. But that’s a different discussion. And since I have a feeling we’re speaking different languages, it’s a discussion that can be tabled. I just wanted to point out that you didn’t quite understand my motivation for having Dazi follow Lew to the library.

i am quite serious. i truly appreciated zeim asking and i think its a good thing.

my literary heroes are folks like chip delaney, cordwainer smith and gene wolfe. i truly appreciate zeim remembering that the gm has to have fun too. i want to be able to look forward to writing a heartwood post and i'd love to be in a place where lunch time rolls around and i have something that snares me enough to do a middle of the week post.



this is, and ever since the introductory scenario, always been the case. as i said, i'd much rather respond to your actions than instigate something on my own.

there are many "games" in talesan's village:

1. the fisher/farmer conflict - will it tear the village apart? how can that be prevented from happening? does anyone care if it happens? why can't the larsens do anything about this?

2. the farmer's compound - beyond the opportunity for training, learning more about horses, just why is it away from the town?

3. who taught father canna how to garden?

4. investigating the dirkwood - talesan's is the stepping point for investigating it's mysteries.

5. investigating history - the port of lys and the forgotten fleet.

6. you could even make a boat, find a navigator and go looking for the lost bankorpool empire.

7. just who is broke anyways? why did broke create such an incident?

and those are just the possible opportunities i know that are there.

8. there's even a neighboring hamlet you've been given as a resource to help build a troop - which was created specifically in response to a player generated desire. talesan's village is flooded with jvrillians who are about to lose their contracts. they don't know mikal is looking. someone should take an strong positive action and tell them.

9. or ... and most importantly ... anything else you want to do. getting involved in trundle politics wasn't my idea. going to talesan's village wasn't my idea.

all of these are opportunities. you can take them or leave them. that's up to you. if none of them interest you that's fine - then come up with something you want to do.

have an idea that you don't know will work or generate play or not? ask here. this is what this thread is for.

something in the world is confusing you? don't ask another player. ask me. right here. i like questions about the heartwood.

there is a part of his that i can't do. if there is a path you like to take, if you - as both player and character - have to step up and transition from talking about doing something to actually doing something.

for example, for better or worse there's currently a kidnapped girl. you are standing at a dungeon entrance. one of you four - kadri, mikal, cesare or bekkah ... should step up and say very definitively "this is what we are going to do" because if you wait for me to toss things at you it's probably going to go downhill very quickly.

what should you be worried for? light, traps, guards ... typical dungeon things. you've been given an airlock so you don't have to worry for the time and the tide. you can presume you brought some manner of common gear with you, and don't forget you also have common magics.

i do recommend keeping this secret. the consequence of the general town hearing that the fishers may have kidnapped a farmer girl could start a small civil war.

i also think this conversation has been good and hopefully helpful. i also think its pretty much run its course. if anyone wishes to continue, that's fine, but lets do it through pm. we need to get back to the more important matter - playing the game.

please keep using OOC to ask questions or get clarifications. i'd much prefer hearing things direct.

to sum up:

there's always been choice.

go anywhere and there will be something happening that will involve players.

have your character take a definitive action based on what they want to do, and it can go anywhere.

now there's a girl who needs rescuing. time for someone to take charge.

Well, honestly? Sometimes, I wonder why I bother. I did say that mileage may vary on the perception of your sincerity. Other people will have their take on it, and others might take you at your word and believe you are absolutely sincere. There really isn’t any need to try convincing me that you’re sincere because I know you. And I have my jar of salt right here.

And, as usual, you completely missed the main point. But... sigh. I’m used to that.

I had some things to say about your List of Possible Games in Talesan’s Village. I don’t think posting those thoughts will make any difference in the conversation, so... [snip]

And since I’m not going to talk about what I thought about the List of Possible Games in Talesan’s Village, I don’t need to keep the section wherein I felt compelled to derail the usual argument you pose for some of the thoughts I expressed, so again... [snip]

However, I do have a problem with other things you said. Here’s what I see as the problem:

[Note: This is JUST MY PROBLEM. No one else needs to jump on board. Or, to put it in terms my grandmother might use, this is my cross to bear and no one needs to play the part of Simon of Cyrene.]

[Also, I’m not going to bother with the quote block and actually copy the GM’s actual words. Doing that yesterday was enough pain for one week, and I still haven’t looked at the weekly post that needs copy editing. I will do my usual job of correcting spelling and grammar.]

“I also think this conversation has been good and hopefully helpful.”

I am glad you feel it was good. I do not feel that way, and that is only my opinion. I do not feel that it was particularly helpful, either. Again, that is only my opinion.

“I also think it’s pretty much run its course. If anyone wishes to continue, that’s fine but let’s do it through PM. We need to get back to the more important matter: playing the game.”

This is called “shutting down the conversation.” The message it conveys is: whether or not anyone else has something to add is irrelevant to you. You have decreed that there will be no more conversation on this matter in public. The Game is NOT more important that the discussion of the dynamics of the game and the people involved in it, however. Both are equally important, and conversations about problems and issues should have the light shone on them, rather than hiding them away in dark private PMs.

I’ve lived my entire life hearing this kind of thing.

“Children should be seen and not heard.”

“You can’t do that... you’re just a girl.”

“You’re just a woman... what do you know?”

“You’re a freak, a dyke... what do you know?”

“You’re not like us, like [insert dominant culture group of choice]... what do you know?”

I know that I have to fight, and I have to fight CONSTANTLY and with more energy than I seem to have to have my voice heard.

And so I know that I can’t let this attitude of “now be quiet, children” stand.

I know that I have to fight for what I want and for what I believe. Every day. Every minute. Every second. (And yet, I know that this is not a fight I can continue to fight and still maintain some semblance of sanity.)

I know that I am not perfect, but that I need to give the impression that I am... because I’m a woman. Because I’m queer. Because I’m smarter than the average bear. Or person.

Be bold. Be brave. Be true. Be you. [Today is National Coming Out Day in the US. As I was writing this, MarriageEqualityUSA posted this message on their Twitter feed. It feels appropriate.]

Like every other person in every other minority on this planet (i.e., everyone who is not a cis heterosexual white (preferably Christian) male), I have to be twice or four times or eight times as good as anyone else in order to be considered “good enough.”

After more than half a century of doing this, it’s no wonder I am exhausted.

And on top of that, add a few tragedies to the mix that would have killed a lesser person and see what happens. This is what happens: stress. A lot of stress. And stress is bad.

[According to the most recent research in the field (and there isn’t much research in the field), a person may or may not have a tendency to develop fibromyalgia. But if a person does have that tendency, extreme mental, emotional and/or physical stress will trigger it.

And fibromyalgia is a bundle of joy and laughter... assuming you are one of those people who enjoys pain. Me? I hate it. I hate it a whole lot. So the fact that I’m in physical pain pretty much 24 hours out of every day? Just consider it part of my charm. And accept that I’m snarling at you (“you” being any human or non-human on the planet who happens to work my nerves, causing stress, thereby exacerbating my pain) from a place of stress and pain. Also, for some people, the snarling is caused by disbelief that a person can be so clueless and/or stupid and still function enough to get dressed in the morning. (Mokie knows who I’m talking about... the one who probably falls somewhere on the autism spectrum and the one who is so narcissistic that she needs to share her personal life and the micromanagement of her four f*ck*ng living daughters with the whole office.)]

So, I’m coming from THAT place when I read... hell, just about anything. And because that’s the place I’m coming from, I can’t help but take umbrage at the condescending idea that we should stop talking about any issues we might have with the way the GM interacts (or does not interact, to be more accurate) with the players... or with the confusion sown by the GM while he’s weaving a tapestry of the world... or at the idea that all of this should stay hidden in private places if we dare have the audacity to want to talk about it.

Problems do not get solved in darkness. Sometimes problems don’t get solved at all and issues don’t get resolved, but they certainly can’t be solved or resolved if they’re tucked in the closet.

There are problems here. Has ANYONE noticed that Pam left? Hmm?

I’m going to quote (with her permission) something Pam said to me this past week: “More of that not funny stuff.... [Wolf] is the only GM who has not asked me if I intend to continue, not that I have many GMs. You, Jim (3 games) and Mud.”

(As a caveat, I am not a GM. BTS is a writing forum. Pam and I are co-writing facilitators, not co-GMs. But yes, I do badger her regularly about writing for BTS and FS.)

And really? Given the way the GM stepped all over her last year when she did have a few days of relative calm and was able to post, I don’t blame her for just walking away and not looking back.

Oh, here’s something the GM said: “You have these hive minds and I’m excluded. If you’re talking about the game, I should be part of the conversation.” And then there was this gem: “I feel like you’re keeping me from talking to the players.”

Trying to explain how the messaging system on DreamLyrics works was like trying to explain the inner workings of a specific and ridiculously complex relational database to New Person. (Or trying to explain quantum mechanics to a cat.)

(Also, that last statement... NO WORDS, people. NO WORDS!)

“All you have to do — if you want to talk to the players — is start a group PM. It’s very simple.” I said this. I said this many months ago, before I even dropped out of the last “Hive Mind” PM.

This conversation must be public because there’s not enough impetus anywhere to start a private conversation. (This is on top of the fact that a private conversation is a bad idea to start with.)

I have ceased caring. (More accurately, I’ve decided it’s bad for my mental health to care. Shut down, numb it all up. Smartest move in terms of HWD. Of course, the fact that this is the story of my life and isn’t particularly healthy in the grander scheme of things... Well, compromises must be made.)

Go and rescue the girl. Dazi will have a good time with Kisa and Lew reading in the library. Bright and early “tomorrow” morning, Dazi’s going to take Kisa home via the Compound (there will be hand waving and no adventure; we’ll just assume that Dazi and Morning Star get the training they need). When she gets home, she’ll round up some willing horse archers and send them to Mikal, if that’s what Mikal still wants. Again, more waving of the hands... just assume it happens. All your Dayalans will be NPCs because Dazi will leave Kay in charge of the Dayalans. MAYBE Dazi will make a guest appearance here or there or somewhere. (It would most likely be in or around Bordertown; she really doesn’t like Cragside. Unless you somehow wind up in Dawnview Vale.) Or maybe she’ll just be someone who gets mentioned every now and again: “I wonder what Dazi’s up to. Didn’t Bekkah get a letter from her today?” Right along with, “Do you think Darian actually found the Pack she was looking for?” and “Does anyone know where Jankin went?”

Yep, I’m already planning another “hiatus.” Except I don’t plan on coming back from this one.

Does that make me sad? Yes. Yes, it does. Because there is a lot of potential on the Heartwood, there are a lot of interesting things to learn. But the stress and aggravation aren’t worth it anymore. I spend more time being upset at the Heartwood and anything related to the Heartwood than I do enjoying the Heartwood or writing anything for the Heartwood.

If I leave the game, the GM is obligated to tell me anything I want to know. That, too, was part of the agreement we made when I returned from hiatus: if I ask a question and the answer isn’t something that can or will be learned in the course of RP, the GM has to answer the question. He’s already tried to wiggle out of it by saying one of my questions could be answered in the course of RP. However, the only way it could have been answered in the course of the game would be if the motivations of my character that he believes she has actually are the motivations my character actually does have. And Dazi’s motivations are not what the GM believes them to be. Also, I think I know my character better than anyone else does.

Strip all that stuff away — would Dazi do this, would Dazi ever do that — and the questions become so much easier to answer. And since the GM has already admitted that some of the questions don’t have answers... well, that’s just more fodder for my imagination.

I prefer to play, not to have long OOC threads. If I have issues I tend to talk to my GM. If he/she doesn't listen, then I leave.

The thing that has most frustrated me in this game has been Pam's absences, though I do understand how work & family can swamp free time. I have kept going in the hope she would be back. Now I learn that is not happening.. and I feel I should have been told directly.

I have enjoyed HWD, including Wolf's style. Yes there is incomplete understanding of every post but I considered the depth of culture made up for that. I had picked up on the farmer clue and was hoping to investigate that. Plus I thought as a group we would need to tackle the forest.

I don't know where we go from here. I have no wish to continue is a relationship with an absentee character. It is too constraining. So either we recruit another player or the character has to die/leave in a way that Cesare could carry on.

But listening to the rest of you, does this game have a future?

Are there things you like about it?

I found much to like, so I will wait to see if anything can be salvaged.

I too like the game, Kadri and the personalities.

I've enjoyed Bekkah. But I've always maintained that she is a sidekick. So I'm at the mercy of the rest of you. Yeah, yeah some of you are going to argue, but that's what I want from her.

Well, from what I just saw above it seems it is just you, Art, and me, Gypsy. Nivek only wants to be a side-kick, Mokie has posted 3 times in the past year, and Kel said she was leaving along with Pam?

Well keep in mind, I'll post as much as the rest of you, I just don't want to drive the story

So Bekkah will be there to talk to, and to interact with. I'm not abandoning you.

In that case it would seem like potentially recruiting, perhaps, one more to round out a group might work. Or leaving it a more focused group.

Go ahead and be a sidekick, Nivek. But in the argument that followed the posting of my last post, I did say that Dazi's love for her sister would be the one thing that might make me change my mind. (You'd think it would be her love for Kisa, wouldn't you? But no. Kisa is an NPC and Bekkah is a PC. Plus, we both know Dazi has always adored her big sister.)

I work with Mokie, and the situation in his department is no less maddening than mine. We're all understaffed, overworked and going insane. (It probably helps that I started that way; on the other hand, I think Mokie did too.) Plus, Real Life™ has been relentlessly evil to him and Mrs. Mokie.

The GM will continue to badger me to play HWD until he drops dead. If we start from the assumption that everyone who participates in HWD needs to have fun, and acknowledge that everyone has a different idea in their mind for what constitutes fun for them, then the nature of the game needs to shift. In the aforementioned argument, the GM did at least indicate he was willing to attempt to do that.

I think recruiting DOES need to happen. Fresh perspectives could help.

Even if I stay, I will probably be on a separate track that might cross the main track occasionally.

I think Pam should speak for Pam here.

(I am NOT going into the Forest. You can't make me. There is nothing the GM can say or do to convince me it's a good idea, since everything in the background documents and everything we've learned during play has made it sound like The Worst Idea Ever In The History Of Bad Ideas. (Your mileage may vary. I seem to be saying that a lot.) There are no bribes big enough. Have fun with the Forest Adventure. Don't get eaten. Don't take Romana. Find a Covener.)