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AquaDyne #1060318 Sat 22/07/23 11:31 UTC
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When we started HOTDQ we just learned 5e. Yes, it's "home brew". Yes, that's how we're doing it here. But RAW does provide avenues (although narrow) to improve skills.


-Nep
AquaDyne #1060396 Sat 22/07/23 20:47 UTC
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They are onerous and should be (IMO) automatic, or at a minimum just like class advancement skills. Your method is closer to reasonable than the basic rules are.

AquaDyne #1060400 Sat 22/07/23 21:25 UTC
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Well ... it depends <weg> on what you want in your game. I had a F2F game ... back in the days when I had that going on ... and we spent a =lot= of 'game time' playing through all of that stuff. On the one hand it =could= get 'tedious', but on the other hand we got to do a lot to make our characters our own.


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AquaDyne #1060402 Sat 22/07/23 21:29 UTC
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MikeD, it fine, but your pcs got their class skills the instant the had enough xps for the new level didn't they? If you made them study for both, fine. Or not study for both, again fine. My entire point is it should be consistent. Either you get both (Class Abilities and new Skills) for free or you get neither, without extra work.

AquaDyne #1060409 Sat 22/07/23 21:39 UTC
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Yeah. But then, how do you 'portray' learning a skill over time in a game ... that doesn't make it more ... complicated and less fun ?


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AquaDyne #1060427 Sat 22/07/23 22:49 UTC
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How do you portray gaining new class skills that have zero to do with anything you have done in that class before so cannot be explained by using your class abilities? Same thing.

AquaDyne #1060544 Sun 23/07/23 12:07 UTC
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it happens during all that 'time' that passes when not in actual play


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MikeD #1060552 Sun 23/07/23 12:43 UTC
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Originally Posted by MikeD
it happens during all that 'time' that passes when not in actual play

Ideally that is when it happens but an excellent point was made. 5th has made it nearly impossible for actual character growth outside of combat related skills. The characters grow stronger one dimensionally while taking nothing into account where they grow as people (loose term) outside of combat.

Miales #1060582 Sun 23/07/23 14:18 UTC
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Originally Posted by Miales
5th has made it nearly impossible for actual character growth outside of combat related skills. The characters grow stronger one dimensionally while taking nothing into account where they grow as people (loose term) outside of combat.
Which is the job DMs take on.

Every player in this game has a back story and goals and intertwined story arcs. Most (all?) are non-combat based.

Curious how you would wrap a system around "growing as a person/humanoid"?

Neptune #1060611 Sun 23/07/23 16:35 UTC
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I am also curious <weg>


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Neptune #1060654 Sun 23/07/23 22:02 UTC
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Quote
5th has made it nearly impossible for actual character growth outside of combat related skills.

I don't know if that is a true statement. Aside from what Aquadyne said about it being up to the DM, there is an entire chapter of the DM guide which expands on the chapter in the Player's Handbook, about downtime activities. Many DMs ignore those chapters. I have not but neither have I over-played that aspect.

However, Miales, I don't think Zeim was complaining about acquiring skills like blacksmithing or becoming a seamstress. He was focused on skills we roll for, like Arcana, Religion and Stealth.

And Zeim, yes, I developed my downtime house rule because I agree with you that a paladin that suddenly decides to become a warlock is kind of absurd without training and a story. But the game has become loosey-goosey with that.


-Nep
Neptune #1060682 Sun 23/07/23 23:51 UTC
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Yes. My point is simply consistency. Either give new Skills (the ones you mention Nep. I could care less about being a Blacksmith, but becoming Skilled in Stealth or Perception could be critical) for free every Tier, just like pcs get new class skills for free every tier, or make everything, including new class skills, require study.

Neptune #1061082 Tue 25/07/23 13:17 UTC
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I think skills should be awarded by the DM in exchange for gold from the players. weg

Neptune #1061083 Tue 25/07/23 13:29 UTC
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We'll need to set up a gofundme page LOL


-Nep
Neptune #1061093 Tue 25/07/23 14:36 UTC
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Aqua - Here you go.......

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Neptune #1061473 Wed 26/07/23 21:04 UTC
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I am so paying in pennies. grin

Neptune #1062218 Mon 31/07/23 06:16 UTC
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nem Online Away
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I'm back from the Balearics. Southern Europe is hot at the moment, yikes! Landed to grey skies and rain and I was happier for it.

Neptune #1062236 Mon 31/07/23 12:01 UTC
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glad yer back safe <g>


MikeD
Neptune #1062655 Thu 03/08/23 06:02 UTC
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Welcome Back!

Neptune #1063819 Sun 13/08/23 22:20 UTC
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Any chance for a circumstance bonus for Kriv, given his longstanding tradition of being unflinching in the face of fire due to his resistance as a Dragonborn, as well as the fact he's wearing armour proofed against dragon breath in particular, thus diminishing the relative perceived threat of the illusion?

AJ #1063827 Mon 14/08/23 00:05 UTC
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Originally Posted by AJ
Any chance for a circumstance bonus for Kriv, given his longstanding tradition of being unflinching in the face of fire due to his resistance as a Dragonborn, as well as the fact he's wearing armour proofed against dragon breath in particular, thus diminishing the relative perceived threat of the illusion?

This tweet exchange is amusing and relevant:
Quote
yeah, because of all humanoids, the dragonborn know that all dragons are badasses and we all have to be [cautious]
.

So the initial answer is 'no' but does Kriv have the Frightful Presence feat? If so I think that knowledge might help his wisdom and I might consider at least allowing advantage on the save.

Neptune #1063831 Mon 14/08/23 00:48 UTC
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Spent way too long digging into immunities or advantages against being frightened. grin

Vordana has advantage on the save throw as a Halfling.

Sindar has Countercharm which could impact future rolls for those who fail, but not this one.

Last edited by AquaDyne; Mon 14/08/23 03:39 UTC. Reason: Countercharm
Neptune #1063832 Mon 14/08/23 00:55 UTC
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Doesn't have the feat, but could potentially know about it due to studying a lot.

Neptune #1063834 Mon 14/08/23 01:15 UTC
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I have been doing a lot of thinking about this... lots of things a Dragon can do to hurt you other than fire or breath.

Assuming combat that Kriv might be envisioning, before its turn it could take a legendary action to make a Wing attack (DC22 dex save or take 15 avg dam and be knocked prone). Its usual attack is a standard bite+claws multiattack would give 2d10+8 and two 2d6+8 bludgeoning damage (avg 42 dam). So that's avg 57 dam (min of 40 dam even with all 1's) without even breathing. For reference, Kriv has 42 total HP on the stat sheet I'm looking at.

As the tweet exchange showed, as a Dragonborn, Kriv might even be more knowledgeable about the possible threat and more afraid of it if he were to believe it was real, even with his breath/fire protections.

Which goes back to the Wis save.

So my ruling for at least this initial frightened check is no bonus/advantage for Kriv. Sorry.

Note that more things might happen associated with this rune y'all have triggered, depending on how everyone responds, and I will take Kriv's protection into account for those, if relevant.

Last edited by AquaDyne; Mon 14/08/23 01:16 UTC. Reason: correct damage math
Neptune #1063910 Mon 14/08/23 13:30 UTC
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I will add that there are magics and special abilities that would give Kriv resistance or advantage to fear of any type it would have been an attribute of the item or special ability.


-Nep
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