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| | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,063 Likes: 9 Wobbly Headed Administrator | Wobbly Headed Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,063 Likes: 9 | How's this, Pandemonium? http://www.leanerminds.com/forums/files/stk_pc_helf+bard.pdfI updated his known spells for 7th too, and changed out Fear for Leomund's Tiny Hut since the party will be on the road an awful lot now. For his second magic secret I added the Fly spell. Can always find a use for Fly, especially outdoors! | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 | MikeD - Well I would discount 4e, that was something other than D&D. I happened to like 3.5 too. Even though it had rules contradictions and you needed a Mack Truck to carry around all of the Addendum Books. I like 5e most, I think, because of the focus on simplifying things. That is why I am leery of the new playtest version coming out.
Pande - DD is good, although it is very specific in use. Most of the time you won't cast it, but the one time you need it it can be critical to have. Still, when you have only 1 spell slot to use, and two spells to select, it is wasteful to take another damage spell. Just as an FYI, Zhu has taken Confusion as one of her 4ths so I think you can cross that off the list.
Last edited by Zeim; Sat 10/09/22 16:44 UTC.
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 Member | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 | Zeim, I found the 4e game I played for a while quite enjoyable. But ... as with any game ... the GM has a lot to do with 'how things go' <g>
MikeD
| | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 | Oh I enjoyed it too, but it really wasn't D&D. | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 Member | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 | Well there was =quite= a lot of change with =each= new version. So why do you complain about 4th? What makes it not D&D?
MikeD
| | | | Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,029 Likes: 10 Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator | Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,029 Likes: 10 | Looks awesome!
I had actually looked at Leomounds for exactly that reason. House of cards could fit a similar bill, but Leomounds is a better spell.
Fly is always useful, and more useful than DD as is pointed out.
Probably take the lance or phantasmal killer as the alternate, but as you say not crucial to decide right now.
Thank you Neil! | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 | D&D is equal parts role playing and roll playing. 4e was 99% roll playing. There was very little element of role playing left. Everything was reduced to tactics and strategy (which is actually why I liked it). Everything in the game was about building up your pcs combat power. All of the abilities were combat related. That IS a big part of the game, but IMO it was tilted far too much to one side. Most people I talk to about it liken it to a tactical wargame.
Last edited by Zeim; Sat 10/09/22 22:09 UTC.
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,500 Likes: 57 Wizop Administrator | Wizop Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,500 Likes: 57 | I didn't like 4 because of that, more like a tactical board game | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,063 Likes: 9 Wobbly Headed Administrator | Wobbly Headed Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 13,063 Likes: 9 | Cool, Pandemonium, updated for you, added Phantasmal Killer for the time being. | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 Member | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 | Panda ... I didn't =have= to be that way. The GM has a big part in that and it =does= take a lot more work on the GMs part. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it is as fun to play as any other version.
MikeD
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,972 Likes: 1 Moderator | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,972 Likes: 1 | Pande, 5e is much closer to 1st and 2nd editions than 3, 3.5 or 4th. As Zeim said, it's simpler and streamlined and 4e wasn't D&D. The number of actions per round, the interrupts, the multiple defensive ratings just made things very different.
MikeD, IMO an edition really cannot be evaluated in a PbP game. FTF is the litmus test. Running 4e at high levels was impossible. Zeim and I ran a 5e game to 20th level and it was manageable. Yes, the BBE battle at the end took a very long time to run but there were about several dozen combatants with a lot of hit points.
To me the game without the story is just okay. It's Arena D&D. There's a place for that but a compelling story line and good roleplaying enrich the experience.
-Nep
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 Member | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 | Sorry I wasn't clear Nep. I played and ran 4th at GenCon ... back in the day. It was all F2F.
I should also mention that it is not the ed =I= would choose for a game =I= was going to run. But that is just me <wink>
MikeD
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,972 Likes: 1 Moderator | OP Moderator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 17,972 Likes: 1 | I remember you running 4e at GenCon. I was at your table with Doretta Reilly! What edition would you run if the stars aligned properly and you decided to run?
-Nep
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 Member | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 | Ahh ... I had forgotten that. Damn I miss DR!! <sigh>
Well on first level, the story matters most. I can (and have) run games in most of the versions. 5e is the exception. I have not played or run it.
As to what I would run (if I were to run a game again) ... the 'edition' is not the real issue. The most important first question is the story. Is it a sound, reasonable and most importantly 'fun' 'tale' that will work in the selected game environment. Like I said ... I have enjoyed them all. But I will admit that there have been games in every edition that made me want to strangle the 'authors' :-/
MikeD
| | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 | | | | | Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,029 Likes: 10 Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator | Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,029 Likes: 10 | | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 | Pande - Taking conversation here to try to not clutter up thread. So spells designated as Rituals take an additional 10 minutes to cast (so are not really usable in battle) but do not use up any of your spell slots. That also means you can't use a higher level spell slot to get extra effects. It also means you don't have to have them memorized to use that way. Beyond Leomund's Tiny Hut, it is actually one of the best ways (when not in a hurry) to use Detect Magic btw. | | | | Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,335 Likes: 13 Maris Imperium Member | Maris Imperium Member Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,335 Likes: 13 | | | | | Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,292 Administrator | Administrator Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,292 | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 Member | Member Joined: May 2000 Posts: 42,121 Likes: 5 |
MikeD
| | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,500 Likes: 57 Wizop Administrator | Wizop Administrator Joined: May 2000 Posts: 76,500 Likes: 57 | | | | | Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,335 Likes: 13 Maris Imperium Member | Maris Imperium Member Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,335 Likes: 13 | Who wore it better? | | | | Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,029 Likes: 10 Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator | Chaotic Obfuscator Moderator Joined: May 2009 Posts: 15,029 Likes: 10 | Ty for the explanation! Nice cartoons! | | | | Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 (Buffalo) Moderator | (Buffalo) Moderator Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 22,137 Likes: 8 | Since the item was mentioned in the main thread, did those Fire Giants get away with the giant Rod they dug up? I was a while ago and I don't remember. | | | | Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,335 Likes: 13 Maris Imperium Member | Maris Imperium Member Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,335 Likes: 13 | Since the item was mentioned in the main thread, did those Fire Giants get away with the giant Rod they dug up? I was a while ago and I don't remember. Here's the thread to jog your memory. And the aftermath.
Last edited by AquaDyne; Sun 13/11/22 17:16 UTC.
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