Eye of the Dragon
DreamLyrics Play-by-Post
Who's Online Now
1 members (Zeim), 6 guests, and 9 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Dice Roller
You will need to enable Javascript in order to view the Dice Roller.
Games Recruiting List










Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1021952 Mon 15/11/21 16:08 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Some are calling it D&D 5.5 but we won't know for sure until much closer to the time.

Either way, a new edition is coming.

https://screenrant.com/dungeons-dragons-dnd-5-5-updates-changes-release-date/

Let's talk shop, for anyone who has an interest! jk

I'm not an avid fan of D&D but I think 5e might be the best edition I've played and I've played them all.

It does have some flaws, imo, such as Dexterity-builds being too optimal and all abilities leading to the same effect, Advantage. But overall it's pretty straightforward.

I think there are better, non-official versions of D&D, like 13th Age and Shadow of the Demon Lord, written by D&D designers, but who knows what direction Wizards will take.

Right now the main thing that concerns me is players who've invested heavily in D&D Beyond, Roll20 and other 5e online platforms, spending hundreds on digital content.

Will they be asked to fork out again for this next edition? Most likely.

Now I don't mind giving customers a valid reason to spend more money on a game they love. Everyone wins. So I'm not against monetisation per se.

What I don't like is when monetisation influences the game design, making a game harder to play unless more is spent on it.

Or when prices are so stupendously high, the publishers are clearly whale-fishing. Fine if you're a whale but all the minnows are barred.

What do you all think?

Have Wizards done a good job with D&D 5e and D&D Beyond, for example?

Should the 2024 edition be 5.5 or 6, a whole new edition?






Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
FWIW, just because there is a new version of a game ... doesn't mean there is anything wrong with any of the previous versions. I know people that are still playing the older editions and enjoying it <vbg>


MikeD
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
For sure. Each edition has its own charms and quirks.

From what I've played of 5e, it could certainly do with a few tweaks now that enough people have played it to identify the flaws. But I'm not sure I'd even call that 5.5. I'd probably just call it 5e 2024, since it'd still be 5th Edition but as-of 2024.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
Well ... I don't really care =what= they 'call' it <weg> I just care whether it is an improvement ... or not <shrug>


MikeD
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Agreed, absoluetly. What I mean to say is that 5.5 suggests a new version, cue new versions of all the supplements like WotC did with 3.5. But it seems to me that 5e is fine, just in need of a few tweaks to the core rules, and if they did that they'd only need update the core rule books.

Of course if they want to start from scratch again with a new version, a version 6 if you will, then fair enough. I guess I just don't like the idea of a halfway house. wink

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
I guess =someone= will just have to buy a copy, read it, see what is different ... and let us all know <weg>


MikeD
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Nice one, MikeD! grin

<Looks at Gypsy>

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 476
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 476
I have not invested too far into 4e or 5e because I went fully into 3e and more into 3.5 and Pathfinder. And also because I realize they will just keep putting out new editions so what's the point to catch up. I just got a Players Handbook for each of those so I had enough to play. Then I spun up a D&D Beyond account and while I appreciated it, I got really annoyed that it didn't cover all the elements of the PH. It had like... 85% unless I bought more into the Beyond account.

I have a creaky old-school version of HeroLab to manage my Pathfinder campaign and honestly at the rate this Adventure Path (Reign of Winter) is going (which I don't really mind) this is probably going to be the last campaign I run with my main group. grin We've been crawling for over a year just to get to the end of the second of six modules. Literally, we've been on the same in-game day since December 2020. We play monthly, remote.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
I think that's a popular request so far, Vryx: To have the new PHB come with a product key inside that you can enter into D&D Beyond and get access to the complete digital volume, for example.

At present, you have to buy the PHB hard copy for 30 quid, then 30 quid for the digital version on D&D Beyond. Then if you want to share that PHB with your players, so they can use it to create characters on D&D Beyond you have to pay 6 quid a month!!

Of course, no-one forces a group to use D&D Beyond but the issue isn't players don't want to support Wizards, it's more that the price of supporting Wizards is too high.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
First about Vryx's about the annoyance with D&D Beyond. D&D isn't free. The stuff Vryx is complaining about is how they make money so I have no complaints there. Where I do have a complaint is (like Nem) that if I bought the hard cover books, I shouldn't have to buy another set of books on Roll20, D&D Beyond, etc.

D&D 5e was released in 2014 - 7 years ago. The new version will be released 10 years later. Also, this new version will be backward compatible with 5e. That's why it's being called 5.5e.

I simply HATED 3.5 because it was a complicated, supercharged "Monty Haul" game and 4e wasn't D&D. 5e is brilliant and sales validate that statement. The game was streamlined and the authors addressed most of the issues of prior editions. There are things I would love to add and tweak.
  • More character paths and character options.
  • An official battle system for those of us that like that sort of stuff
  • More varied minor magic items
  • Clearer explanations of how hiding and invisibility work (it makes no sense that stealth is better than invisibility to me)
  • More tricks and traps defined for specific party levels
  • I never understood why monster challenge ratings scale like this: 0, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Why not start counting at 1 like real people. Oh, and why not have that CR correspond to average party level?
  • While they're at that, how about random encounter tables by party level?
  • More weapons and different capabilities. Include firearms, laser beams, etc. (I understand tech will be added for Spelljammer modules)
  • Perhaps add secondary personality attributes such as comeliness, luck, honor, reputation and loyalty.
  • A better use of factions. There should be optional benefits that come at the expense of other benefits. A real hierarchy and progression, like with character levels, As an example, Zhentarim get a +1 to stealth, -1 to persuasion, +1 to intimidation. I would have these as optional feats available only to members of specific factions.
  • More roleplaying options like non-combat encounters with XP values
  • Feats are optional in 5e and cost a points in prime attributes. I think you should start with one and get another one at every tier (there are 4) as you go up in levels.
  • Speaking of levels. They can go higher. What level is a god?
  • Better definition of monster sizes and shapes. Is a Cyclops the same shape as a T-rex? According to 5e they are.
  • A much clearer way to scale encounters (the current math is insane).


Those are just some of my thoughts but the #1 thought is that all these are tweaks to an already excellent game.

Last edited by Neptune; Wed 17/11/21 20:49 UTC.

-Nep
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
I guess 3.5 is why I posted this topic, to some extent, Neptune. When I hear "5.5" I think "3.5" and that just makes me shudder. After all, 3.5 was touted as being backwards compatible with 3.0 but it turned out to be disingenuous. There were just too many moving parts to that system.

Nonetheless, I'm optimistic about 5.5. I think the current version could do with a tune-up. Like the Ranger class, frex. So many people use the Unearthed Arcana Ranger, might as well just fix it in the core rules.

I also like the idea of initiative being divorced from Dexterity. I mean, you could just say "add your best modifier" for initiative, since you can explain it by any attribute:

Str = How fast you can move your muscles
Dex = How quick your reflexes are
Con = How ready and energised your body is
Int = How quick thinking you are
Wis = How well you anticipate the next few seconds
Cha = How sure you are of your self

All these things play a part in "how quickly you act" and since a PC or monster's best modifier will often be the same (+3), you could just have a flat d20 roll, no modifiers for all it matters.

Then if a player wants to be The One Who Goes First, there's always the Alert Feat that gives +5.

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
Agree with all the points. I happened to like 3.5, but that might be because I tend to run "off the cuff". I have no issue scaling encounters because I don't use the math or a table. I just look at how the encounter is going and if I want it to be tougher, guess what? New monster re-enforcements suddenly appear. Or they get more HPs than normal.

The inherent rules contradictions and exceptions in 3.5 were definitely a PITA though. Especially if your group of players are all 'Rules Lawyers'. How do you resolve a defense that makes the first attack "always miss" when it comes up against a benefit that makes your first attack "always hit", forex?

I suspect one of the reasons they came up with a mathematical formulae for things like scaling, btw, was people complained there were too many tables in 3.5 (and while 5e is different, in overall feel it is more of a return to 3e than it is building on 4e) and for those who are 'imagination challenged' they feel there's not enough variety and after playing for a while you get the same Random Encounters and same Random Treasure over and over.

BTW, Zhu (in Nep's Game) has taken Alert, but more for the "Never Surprised" benefit than the +5 to Initiative. Which, btw, has proven to be a Rules Contradiction just like we saw in 3.5 already. We ran into an creature that "always has surprise", yet Zhu has a defense that makes her "never surprised".

I think Nep ruled on it properly by following the same procedure as you use for Advantage. Those two benefits just cancel each other out.

Last edited by Zeim; Thu 18/11/21 14:24 UTC.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Running a game here is different than running a FTF game. Zeim and I come from the same DM school (we taught each other). I run off the cuff too and ignore the "math". I look at a stat block and know instinctively whether it's tough or easy for my players. But easy math is for novice DMs that don't realize that a 1st level party shouldn't square off against an ancient red dragon or that 10,000 kobolds don't stand a chance against a single 20th level fighter.

It's interesting to note that ENworld is publishing an "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 5e" game that they're selling. I'm wondering if the response by WOTC is to combat that? This will give you a flavor for that unofficial game:
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition



-Nep
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
I'm a diehard 13th Age fan myself and it's had only one edition. Mechanically it's more like D&D 4e than 5e, coming from 4e designer Rob Heinsoo. Shadow of the Demon Lord is another excellent derivative, of 5e this time, coming from 5e designer Robert J. Schwalb.

I think they both offer very strong alternatives to D&D 5e, in mechanics and default setting.

I wonder what Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition's USP will be? Will it be a refinement of existing rules or just another layer on top?

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 476
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by Neptune
First about Vryx's about the annoyance with D&D Beyond. D&D isn't free. The stuff Vryx is complaining about is how they make money so I have no complaints there. Where I do have a complaint is (like Nem) that if I bought the hard cover books, I shouldn't have to buy another set of books on Roll20, D&D Beyond, etc.


Apologies if I was unclear. My annoyance was the same as yours and Nem's. Since I'd bought the hardcover book, I felt like I should have access to the digital version of that content as well.

Why I enjoy 3.5 is with the breadth of material, there's always a lot of interesting interpretation discussion about when one rule touches another.

Why I hate 3.5 is with the breadth of material, there's always a lot of interesting interpretation discussion about when one rule touches another.

Last edited by Vryx; Thu 18/11/21 17:39 UTC. Reason: added love of 3.5
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
For me it has =ALWAYS= been more about the GM than the 'version'. A good GM can set things so that 'the rules' take a back seat to 'the play'.


MikeD
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
and it is easy enough for them to do (to answer Vryx), but again it cuts off a potential revenue stream.

Last edited by Zeim; Thu 18/11/21 18:23 UTC.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Here's a Q. Do you all think there's a justifiable reason for charging for the PDF if you already have the hard copy?

For example, maybe there would be a cost to Wizards in implementing and administering a printed product key that would have to be added to the price of the physical book. So to keep the price of the physical book down, they charge for the PDF if someone wants to buy it.

If so, must price of the PDF be equal to that of the physical book? Are Wizards saying that for every PDF sold, they must cover the loss of the sale of a physical book?

Being in a commercial business myself, I find this interesting but it does seem to me that even if Wizards didn't want to incur the cost of printed product keys, their pricing of the PDF is too high, bearing in mind you still have to pay a monthly sub to actually use its content on D&D Beyond.

It has the whiff of sharp practice to me.

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
No. It is actually taking advantage of the community. You should get a Code to input into any "Official" D&D website to gain access to any hard copy book you've purchased. I can see charging a nominal fee (like maybe $1) for a PDF, IF, you've already purchased the hard copy.

Problem for them is people sharing/stealing that key, but I think they can figure out a way for you to register and password protect it, to mitigate that.

Of course this cuts dramatically into their current revenue stream, and as long as people are willing to pay it it won't stop.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
The 'cost' to develop the 'content' is independent of whether is it printed or electronic.

It certainly costs more for the printed materials. There is the paper and such, printing costs, shipping and distribution costs and so on. But the 'electronic' version also has costs ... server, hosting and bandwidth all cost money too ... and they cost even when you are not selling them <g>


MikeD
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Here's how it's easily done:

Go into a local store where they sell the books with your books. Obtain a rebate sticker with a unique code online. Use the rebate code to get the book on places like Roll20 and D&D Beyond. The code is not reusable. It is locked into your account. If you want to download a pdf, log on to DMs Guild and do likewise

This is easy to do. They need to want to do it.


-Nep
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
They have no incentive, as long as people keep paying.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Sadly true. Though I fear the unseen consequence is that D&D---once the gateway to tabletop role-playing gaming---becomes less accessible to the poorer in society. They will have the physical books still at least but for the younger, online generation, the pricing might been seen as a bar to entry.

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
Here's an idea, IF they are interested in the issue you describe. Establish a charity process where players can donate their used books, modules, and other gaming material they no longer need and WoTC can create a marketplace where those in need can obtain those materials free of charge (or maybe just paying shipping charges).

Seems like a win win. Costs WoTC nothing if we assume the receivers of this charity would not be able to purchase it on their own, and you'd think the good press/goodwill gained would offset the small cost of managing a small web app and the process. Not to mention spreading the game to a wider audience, some of whom may buy in the future.

Of course I can hear the cynics now saying that people who can afford to buy will take advantage of free stuff.

Last edited by Zeim; Sun 21/11/21 15:20 UTC.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
There are used book stores that do that already Zeim <g>


MikeD
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
Yes, but if WoTC did it they have much more resources to leverage it to a wider audience.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Nem, I disagree with your assessment that D&D becomes less accessible to the poorer in society. A basic version, very playable, is available and if one of the players has access to the system, all do. Also, there is so much legitimately free material out there to be used (search for free material on the DMs Guild).


-Nep
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
I think you're right, Nep, in that it doesn't become much less accessible to the poorer in society and tbh, 30 quid for the book is pretty damn cheap considering how much play-time you can get out of it alone. You really don't need the online component and as you say, there's a partially complete online version for free, as Vryx discovered.

However, it does create a higher tier of access. In essence, the Haves and the Have Nots. And I think this could negatively effect perception of the game.

#1033663 Fri 19/08/22 15:29 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
The anticipated announcement about the next version of D&D came out yesterday. It's called One D&D. To paraphrase Jeremy Crawford, it's like D&D 5.5 and is supposed to be backwards compatible (we'll see).


-Nep
Neptune #1033674 Fri 19/08/22 18:37 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Thanks for sharing Nep. I'm a little apprehensive tbh. The emphasis on giving us more and building on the existing system isn't the best sales pitch. What I'd like to see is refinement. But we'll see! smile

Neptune #1033675 Fri 19/08/22 18:38 UTC
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13,459
Mayhem Inc.
Moderator
Offline
Mayhem Inc.
Moderator
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13,459
I would give it a go, but then it's been a while since I have played D&D so this gives me incentive to wait on buying manuals that will be out of date in a year or so.


Jinkies!
Neptune #1033679 Fri 19/08/22 19:35 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
I downloaded the first playtest material. It was called "Character Origins" and formalizes the role playing backgrounds which become very important. To summarize, when you build a character you select a race, class x`
Race - Creature type, Size, Speed, Life Span, Special Traits
Background - Ability score Bonus, Skill Proficiencies, Language, Feat, Equipment.

Every background provides a feat at level 1.
Race doesn't modify ability scores. Background does.

An example race, Halfling

HALFLING TRAITS
Creature Type: Humanoid
Size: Small (about 2–3 feet tall)
Speed: 30 feet
Life Span: 150 years on average
Special Traits:
  • Brave. You have Advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the Frightened Condition on yourself.
  • Halfling Nimbleness. You can move through the space of any creature that is of a Size larger than yours, but you can’t stop there.
  • Luck. When you roll a 1 on the d20 of a d20 Test, you can reroll the die, and you must use the new roll.
  • Naturally Stealthy. You have Proficiency in the Stealth Skill.


An example background:

ACOLYTE
Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom, +1 Intelligence
Skill Proficiencies: Insight, Religion
Tool Proficiency: Calligrapher’s Supplies
Language: Celestial
Feat: Magic Initiate (Divine)
You devoted yourself to service in a temple, either nestled in a town or secluded in a sacred grove. There you performed hallowed rites in honor of a god or pantheon. You served under a priest and studied religion. Thanks to your priest’s instruction and your own devotion, you also learned how to channel a modicum of divine power in service to your place of worship and the people who prayed there.
Equipment
Book (Prayers)
Calligrapher’s Supplies
Holy Symbol
Parchment (10 sheets)
Robe
3 GP

QUick observations:
There are 3 types of spells: Arcane (wizard), Divine (clerical) and Primal (druidic)
1st level feats are special features not tied to a class but rather to a background. I see a potential problem here. In order to be a divine caster you must take the Acolyte background and so on. It feels very tied to the class.


-Nep
Neptune #1033680 Fri 19/08/22 20:04 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
Thanks for doing the 'heavy lifting' to get us 'u[ to speed'. It =does= sound like an interesting system. Sadly, I don't think I have it in me to try and 'learn' a new system <sigh>


MikeD
Neptune #1033693 Sat 20/08/22 06:00 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
I get you Mike. Thing is, it's not a "new" system as much as a major tweak. I don't think there's an impact on your gameplay in the system. There were huge changes from AD&D to 2nd Ed to 3.0/3.5 and of course 4th edition which wasn't even D&D to 5e. This isn't that. The fundamentals are there and they promise that everything will work pretty much the same.

They are calling it backwards compatible and it's not coming out until 2024. Right now play test begins. It's a long way from being a marketable product. But when it comes out it will be D&D.


-Nep
Neptune #1033694 Sat 20/08/22 08:02 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Personally, I think they'd be better tying a skill expertise to the background and either keeping ability score increases as racial or make them completely customisable like in Tasha's. Tying the ability score increase to your background is begging to be ignored.

Neptune #1033696 Sat 20/08/22 12:48 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
Thanks Nep, but if it is the same game ... nothing changed. If things changed, it is a new game <vbg>


MikeD
Neptune #1033712 Sun 21/08/22 08:48 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 72,093
Likes: 7
Wizop
Administrator
Offline
Wizop
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 72,093
Likes: 7
Are you intending to be involved Nep? I think you would be a great person to influence future developmemt. grin Interesting smile

Neptune #1033722 Sun 21/08/22 10:27 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Yes, I signed up for the playtest.


-Nep
Neptune #1033723 Sun 21/08/22 12:42 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 41,478
looking forward to your thoughts!!


MikeD
Neptune #1033741 Mon 22/08/22 00:37 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
There is the normal expected complaints that I've already read and those folks sound like the folks that would complain no matter what. I like most of what I read but need more info. Here's a quick summary of "rule changes". What's interesting is that most of us play by these changes already through house rules or simply further streamline the game.

  • D20 tests - Every time you roll a 20 (to hit, ability checks, saving throws) a 1 is an automatic fail, a 20 is an automatic success.
  • Long rest - 8 peaceful hours with at least 6 sleeping. If interrupted, rest must be restarted an you may take only 1 long rest in a 24 hour period.
  • Inspiration points are lost during a long rest.

    These are "categories" of items and the price was made consistent. A flute now costs the same as a lute, a set of dice cost the same as a deck of cards. And so on.
  • Musical instrument price change - 20 gp each
  • Gaming sets price change - 1 gp each
  • Artisan tool prices change - 15 gp each

    Instead of having 8 spell lists there will be 3. It goes from Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorceror, Warlock and Wizard lists. It's now:
  • Arcane (for Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers and Warlocks),
  • Divine (for Clerics and Paladins)
  • Primal (for Druids and Rangers).
    The spells are pretty much the same, it seems.

    There were some clarifications of conditions. For instance, when "incapacitated" it's now made explicitly clear that you can't take actions or reactions, you lose concentration, you cannot speak, and if you are rolling initiative while in this condition, you have disadvantage on the roll. These all make a lot of sense and most DMs would rule this way but there were probably arguments and these concepts simply needed to be stated explicitly.


So, all-in-all, not much seems out of whack, but I need to see much more before I give it a real rating.


-Nep
Neptune #1033743 Mon 22/08/22 01:48 UTC
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13,459
Mayhem Inc.
Moderator
Offline
Mayhem Inc.
Moderator
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13,459
I like the idea of only 3 spell lists. That simplifies things quite a bit.


Jinkies!
Neptune #1033746 Mon 22/08/22 09:42 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 72,093
Likes: 7
Wizop
Administrator
Offline
Wizop
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 72,093
Likes: 7
Me too! wink And I already thought most of those 'changes' were already 'rules'! Shows they are listening to or are gamers themselves. smile

Neptune #1033752 Mon 22/08/22 13:27 UTC
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Online Busy
(Buffalo)
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,153
Well I guess we will see if the "Spell List" thing is really a simplification or just a renaming. It would be quite easy to compress all of the Sorceror, Wizard, Warlock, etc spells into a single list and then just add a "Class" to the spell description and limit pcs to only casting spells that that match your class. One list, but the same effect.

I also don't really like changing the stat bonus for starting pcs to align with background. As stated, forex, in the Halfling description Nep posted, Halflings are nimble and dexterous. They are born that way. They should get a Dex bump no matter what background they take. Just like a dwarf has a hardy Constitution. Its in his genes. A Dwarf that chooses to become a Cleric doesn't suddenly lose his health. Alternatively, some stats make a little sense. A human who becomes a body builder or some other highly physical background will be stronger than other humans.

I would have preferred that they just give each pc a +1 and a +2 and let them put those into any statistic they wanted, regardless of race, class, or background.

Zeim #1033758 Mon 22/08/22 18:59 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
nem Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Offline
Wobbly Headed
Administrator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Zeim
Originally posted by Zeim: It would be quite easy to compress all of the Sorceror, Wizard, Warlock, etc spells into a single list and then just add a "Class" to the spell description and limit pcs to only casting spells that that match your class. One list, but the same effect.

Ah, I bet they will still be more than three spell lists, it's just that more spells will be added to the subclasses to create distinction and the designers probably don't consider these "spell lists"... even though they are literally lists of spells. heh

Quote
I would have preferred that they just give each pc a +1 and a +2 and let them put those into any statistic they wanted, regardless of race, class, or background.

I think that's what they'll settle on tbh. They already offered it as an option in Tasha's.

Neptune #1033760 Mon 22/08/22 20:29 UTC
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Neptune Offline OP
Moderator
OP Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,521
Likes: 1
Right now they are truly planning on 3 spell lists.

As for the attributes being tied to backgrounds and not race, there will be racial traits that offset the stat bumps. So for dwarves, there's dwarven toughness which adds 1 hp per level. For gnomes there's Gnomish Cunning which give you advantage on Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma saves.


-Nep
1 member likes this: Mina
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
jackie9979, Double Glazing P, Tarien, The Morrigan, Mixie
163 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Saph
Member Spotlight
AJ
AJ
Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 27,445
Joined: May 2000
Forum Statistics
Forums74
Topics2,306
Posts111,869
Members163
Most Online296
Jan 19th, 2020
December
S M T W T F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
†Restricted forums can only be accessed by DreamLyrics members of the age of 18 years or older. Access which is granted by the Behind Closed Doors Procedure.
™DreamLyrics Play-by-Post. DreamLyrics Play-by-Post does not own copyright on DreamLyrics texts or graphics, except trademarked DreamLyrics logos and logotypes. The works contained in DreamLyrics are copyrighted (automatically, under the Berne Convention) by the original authors and may be available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Licence. (See Copyrights for details.)
Privacy Policy
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5