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Yeah it was ridiculous back then and the same problem now. I remember my first character was a thief, Fiendish von Slitneck (Ah, to be 10 YO again!). I rolled terrible stats, which the DM forced me to keep. So I played him recklessly, trying to get him killed but I swear the DM fudged the dice behind his screen so that I stayed alive and didn't undermine his authority. Of course this led to a topsy-turvy world where my weak character proved to be more durable than the strong characters!

For the standard array, I referred to the solo adventure at the start of the D&D BECMI Basic Rules. You play an "average" fighter with 17, 16, 14, 11, 9, 8 attributes. You'd be having a good day to roll that on 3d6! But using it for my standard array works quite well.

The player with Str 12, Dex 9, Con 11, Int 3, Wis 8, Cha 8 who wants to play barbarian, becomes Str 17, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 11. Decent!

I have seen lots of variants out there. 2d6+6 etc... Really it comes down to what is fun. I do enjoy having to play what I roll. If I don't like it, well, nothing is stopping me from generating another set of rolls. Yet that is its own problem, one could just roll 6 sets of 3d6 as many times as is necessary to get what I want.

Oh look I fell on my sword again, roll my stats all over.

That is why we came up with the 2 for 1. It is painful, but it does allow you some flexibility. Back when we started the 2 for 1-ing, we rolled 6 stats with 3d6 and kept them in order. But we have adjusted since then.

Nem, I know someone who used to have players roll up characters. 4d6, keep the highest three. Two rolls per stat, keep the highest roll, but you can put the rolls on whatever stat you would like. Then there was me... after which the rule of 1's = 6. I seriously could not roll a 6 at all. Ever. At least for my characters. But, have me roll stats for NPCs? Guaranteed at least 1 or 2 stats will have max rolls if not more of the attributes.

Mina ... just go get a couple of 'loaded' dice and add them to your rolls <weg>

LOL I should, but too honest. I did score several sets of really nice metal dice a couple of years ago. While they have weight they are not weighted though.

<heh heh heh> Yeah <shrug> I never gave into the ... attraction ... of 'cheating' <sigh>

Honest to God, as a DM I've far more often wished my players were using loaded dice than vice versa! Nothing worse than a simple filler encounter being drawn out by everyone whiffing.

There's a solution to that, Nem. One way we played many, many years ago was (only works in-person) was the players would roll behind the DM screen. Only the DM could see the rolls. It gave the DM total control of the encounter. If you really wanted to you could completely ignore the player's (and your own) rolls and just dictate how the encounter went. As DM if you wanted a tough encounter, you could have one, even if the players were rolling crit after crit. If you wanted an easy encounter it didn't matter how many natural 1's the players rolled. They just happen to hit all the time.

We did do that but what is the point of the dice? Things we learned about story telling and their experiences. Man I have so much more to learn!

13th Age had a good idea for this. The Escalation Dice. Every round the combat progresses the dice moves up one, and the value on the dice is added to the hit roll. Each character class also has "miss damage", applied if they miss, so the enemy's hit points are always worn down every round.

So in a huge, major battle that the PCs in one of my FTF games were losing badly, the warlock tried to disguise himself as the king of the bad guys and convince one of his henchmen that he was the king. I said to the player, roll me a deception skill check. DC 25.

25?!?!?!

The other players started to complain and I explained how it was a nearly impossible task because that combatant had just seen the king far behind him and had sent him forward. The player said, okay. I'll roll.

28!!!! The players rejoiced "Wow! Epic!"

Sometimes the dice work against you but sometimes they're in your favor.

I really like 13th age, though I have only played it never run it.

My question is what level are these players that they have a +8 or more to a Deception roll?

The character with +8 deception was a level Warlock 6/Sorcerer 4 with an 18 Charisma and proficiency in deception.