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...it is political correctness taking over I suspect. They are downplaying race in general from what I have been hearing, using backgrounds for bonuses instead forex.

Mine's still in its Jiffy bag, Mina. I quickly checked it over to make sure it's not damaged but I'm waiting until my birthday to open it.

I'm surprised half-elf is gone from the PHB. From D&D Beyond's own data half-elf was the fifth most popular race of all!

Half-orc have never been popular though. Personally I like 'em, they come with an inbuilt traumatic back story--- it's unlikely they were born from a happy union!

Weeeeellllll ... their 'purpose' is to sell more <sigh>

.... and I suspect that is also part of the problem, Nem. Both half-orc and half-elf have a good chance of coming from a less than consensual arrangement. Not politically correct to "support" that by encouraging those races being pcs.

Heh, sounds like I am better off not getting them. As much as I love new rule books to read, doesn't sound like it is a big enough step in the direction I want to go. I had suspected, but it is nice to confirm.

That's what boggles my mind. If you take out anything scary, disturbing, unpleasant, or evil from D&D, what the Nine Hells are the player characters fighting against??

It'd be like remaking Alien but replacing Giger's penis/vagina-inspired, face-raping alien with Tribbles!

...yes, a slightly annoyed Tribble is the new Tarrasque in politically correct D&D..... <sigh>

OK, I opened my copy of the 5.24 D&D PHB this morning.

Rather than compare it to 5.14 and pick through the rules, what's it like as a standalone product at face value?

First impression, it's well constructed but remarkably lightweight for a book of its size. I was reading about this initiative in publishing the other day, using lighter, lower GSM paper to decrease the carbon footprint. Not only good for the environment but a win for the role-playing gamer too since the rule books are less of a burden. Feeling the paper I think it's still high enough quality to survive use at the table. So well done there, Wizards.

The artwork is very colourful and I approve of how it's more closely tied to the text on the page. Makes sense. The style of the artwork is quite varied. You have some highly resolved art, some sketchy, almost impressionistic, some comic book style. Stylistic variety is OK but it means the tone varies too, giving the book a very generic feel.

Layout and accessibility, this is a vast improvement over every previous edition of D&D except perhaps BECMI edition. A daring choice is to punt all rules definitions to a glossary at the back of the book. So for example, "darkvision" might be mentioned all through the book but if you want to know what it is/does, you have to look it up in the glossary at the back. Although inconvenient for your first read-through, subsequent referencing of a rule is much easier. What do you guys think?

Overall, I must admit my immediate reaction to the new PHB was "Gosh, this is a lot like Tales of the Valiant!!"

Tales of the Valiant is Kobold Press's attempt to make a more accessible 5e. One of Wizards' main aims with 5.24 was to make 5e more accessible. So maybe it's convergent evolution!

Reading through things, it is obvious that there is a huge shift from choosing your species as the basis for character creation. Species now gives you a few 'perks' but not ability modifiers. It also puts the emphasis on Backgrounds, which is where Ability Modifiers come in. It does give a bit more flexibility to create the Elven warriors or Orc Druids etc. that you are envisioning.

Some things about this new edition I really like, some (like the dismissal of the half-elf etc.) not so much.

I did a search on why the half-elf was removed from D&D and here is the answer I received. It is as we suspected. Political correctness run amok:

"The half-elf race was removed from the core rulebook of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) in 2024 because game designers are uncomfortable with the term "half" and concerns about inherent racism. Players who want to create a mixed character are now advised to choose one race and draw their traits from it. The company has also committed to replacing the word "race" with "species".

How sad.

If anyone decides to run a game using the new rules I suggest every single pc be 1/2 of any two combination of races (as a form of protests). Since you draw whatever few benefits remain from only one of your races it really doesn't matter what the other one is. Half halfling and half Orc. Half Elf and Half Dwarf. Sounds like great RPing potential!

I do not mind the switch from Race to Species- but dropping the progeny of two separate species from being rather unique in their own right is a disappointment.

I think the changes generally continue the trend towards races and classes/subclasses being less distinct. Or should I say, if you have a strong vision of your character in mind, there are likely many ways to create that character.

The risk of having too sprawling an à la carte menu is the customer eventually realises everything tastes the same anyway. Let's call it the "takeaway paradox"!

Turning D&D into a buffet---a raceless/classless system---would be a mistake too, I think. There are plenty of other games that offer that already, it's probably not want long-time D&D fans want.

I'm about halfway through the book and so far what I hate the most is the artwork. Thematically it's far too fun and happy. It rarely portrays characters in peril and when it does they often look like they're having a great time, like a ride on a banana boat. Beaming smiles everywhere, it's almost creepy.

It doesn't feel like it's aimed at adults, to be honest! But then I guess... is D&D aimed at adults??

[[ It doesn't feel like it's aimed at adults, to be honest! But then I guess... is D&D aimed at adults?? ]]

Or it =could= be that it is aimed at people that don't want too much 'cast in stone' <shrug>

The fewer 'detailed rules' there are, the more 'the group' can make the game their own.

Well that is certainly the trend in modern game design. Each table can make the game their own. While I appreciate the sentiment, part of why I pick a game system is for the inherent elements baked in. But I am weird, so there is that.

I hate to tell ya ... all gamers are weird <shrug>

All people are weird, MikeD!

But yeah, Pande, I think my misgivings are similarly inspired to yours. I choose to play D&D for its, well, D&D-ness. If it loses its traditional D&D flavour I suspect we'll simply see another Pathfinder spring up, followed by a course correction from Wizards in a subsequent edition.

Yeah ... but since we are here ... with =ton= of gamers ... <weg>

That's a fair point, MikeD. And even amongst the weird there are the weirder still.

I'll probably flip my new PHB on ebay. It seems like stock of the first printing might've run out already in the UK because the retail price has spiked. Amazon are now selling for £41.45!

Wow.

Session 0 of Fives Torches Deep went well today, btw. Rolling your attributes in order on a 3d6 is brutal though!!

The results weren't widely distributed, which bothered me. One character has a 3,6,8,8,11,12, for example. The highest stat we had amongst four characters was one 16, followed by one 14!

You guys are D&D vets, how have you dealt with this issue in the past?

I never play in a game with straight 3D6. For the past many years we used the points distribution system where everything starts at a 10 in every stat and then you have points you can distribute among your stats, max of 16 in any stat. Typical spread is 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

When we did use rolling, years and years ago, it was ALWAYS 4D6 drop the lowest.

The problem with 3D6 is what you just listed. That pc you showed is not only unplayable, but in reality they would NEVER have moved on from being a farm hand to an adventurer. There is not only nothing exceptional about them, they are well below average.

So why do we want to discourage players by having them play below average PCs, have the character die, then have them roll up a new one (rinse and repeat until they actually get a playable pc)?

I want my players excited to play their characters, not frustrated by them.

Zeim mentions one way us old schoolers would do it. 4d6 take the best 3. Another option is to roll 7 or even 8 stats at 3d6 and pick the 6 that work for you, and of course put them in the order you want, to get the class you want. Lastly Stranger, I and other friends at our tables used a 2 for 1 exchange. If after all the rolling you still couldn't quite make the class you want. That 17 for Charisma can be a bear to reach for a Paladin who needs Strength and Con for example. We allowed take 2 points from one attribute and put 1 in the one you want. This leads to some difficult low attributes in some but getting the class you want. Which in the olden days was more important than it is with say 5e.

Yes. The problem with the point distribution system is everyone has the same stats, for the most part, just arranged a little differently to align with their class. I liked 4D6 drop lowest. The idea of rolling stats in order rather than just rolling up 6 stats and placing them where you want is that you basically have to play the class your stats work for rather than the class you want to play.

Again, the goal of the game should be, IMO, to have happy players who are excited to play. I had my heart set on playing a Paladin, but my stats work for nothing except a Rogue. Now I hate my pc. Where is the fun in that? And how does that bring players back to the game to play again and again?

Good advice, guys. Very good. I'll have a think. Since they've rolled already I don't want to start fresh.

How about if I come up with a standard array---that includes the 16 and the 14 rolled---and say the players have to apply them highest to lowest based on the results they rolled? So what they rolled isn't scrapped as such, it just decides the placement of the standard array. What do you guys think?

Fwiw, when I played BECMI D&D back in the Eighties we used straight 3d6. It was brutal then too! Though the rules stated if the highest roll was 8 or the lowest two stats were below 6, the character should be re-rolled.

Yes, I started with Chainmail before 1st ed and it was 3D6. We spent hours rolling up and tossing away unusable pcs until we eventually got one that was playable. Waste of time. I'd rather be playing. Sure there's some role-playing options for a pc with an 18 Str and a 3 Dex, but it grows old fast and no one wants to play a pc who has negative modifiers everywhere.