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#972953 Mon 03/06/19 02:12 UTC
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There's not much to say yet. We'll use this thread for any OOC discussions.

This game is a new game but the PC's from Lost Mines of Phandelver are invited to join. More coming soon.


-Nep
Neptune #972985 Mon 03/06/19 13:28 UTC
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Hey I got here before Ken! Hey wait.. he's not in this game! grin

Neptune #972988 Mon 03/06/19 13:33 UTC
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<Drive by hugging of Gypsy>

Neptune #973100 Tue 04/06/19 11:40 UTC
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<hugs back> wink

Neptune #973146 Tue 04/06/19 18:21 UTC
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Ryssa's ready... smile

Neptune #973172 Tue 04/06/19 22:06 UTC
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Will be working on creating our shared PC over the next week or two, Nep.

Neptune #973520 Fri 07/06/19 14:26 UTC
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Bern will show up ... eventually. But he needs to spend some time in the woods <g>


MikeD
Neptune #973550 Fri 07/06/19 23:30 UTC
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Kriv does not shirk his duties.

Neptune #973650 Sun 09/06/19 23:33 UTC
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Zeim, when you make the PC note that the party looks like this:'

Bern Human Ranger Hunter 6
Jaliera Human Rogue Arcane Trickster 6
Kriv Norixius, Eldritch Knight, Dragonborn fighter 6
Ryssa Human Cleric of Lathander 6
Davroar Human Druid Circle of the Moon 6
{ZeimPC}

For preparation purposes, this adventure will start several months from the end of the Lost Mines of Phandelver. You're all going to gather for the grand reopening of the mines for Highharvestide. Lost mines took place in the spring, in late Mirtul, The Melting. Here's a handy-dandy Calendar. The year is 1491 DR.


-Nep
Neptune #973680 Mon 10/06/19 13:49 UTC
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So this means we have another level and need to upgrade our sheets. Do you want us to upload our character pis to the Gallery and then our upgraded sheets to follow? smile

Now probably seems a good a time as any to let you know that I will be missing for much of August - away from 3rd to 27th! I am hoping to have some connectivity but as I am in 5 different locations where I have no idea of connectivity, I cannot make any guarantees.

Neptune #973709 Mon 10/06/19 21:15 UTC
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Your official character sheet will be in Roll20. We can cull some of that down and place in the gallery. So step #1 is to update your PC in Roll20. It's a one-shot effort and after you learn a couple of tricks, it's really easy to do things. I'll put together a how-to video for everyone. The sheet does all the math and it makes playing so easy. If you are the type that is OK discovering things on your own, go right ahead and get started. However, my experience with it tells me that you're better off waiting for my video before you try to do it on your own.

Gypsy, I saw your post about August. I'm actually traveling to Israel for 2 weeks at the end of August so a mid-summer hibernation is not a bad idea (I'm gone from 8/17 - 8/30). That is the coolest story! I hope that when you meet your bio-relatives it's an awesome experience. I can't imagine having blood siblings that I've never met.


-Nep
Neptune #973712 Mon 10/06/19 21:51 UTC
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So do you have a link?? I don't see one here and I don't have one either :-/


MikeD
Neptune #973743 Tue 11/06/19 05:55 UTC
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I logged into Roll20 but did not do anything other than take a look around and cleared my chat window from previous game. I'm looking forward to this game.

Neptune #973748 Tue 11/06/19 10:05 UTC
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Happy to await instructions! grin

Neptune #973858 Wed 12/06/19 21:05 UTC
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I decided to shell out for the Roll20 module so there'll be a new "game" that you'll be invited to. I have some configuration to do before then. I'll send out official Roll20 invites and also post the link to the game here.


-Nep
Neptune #973868 Wed 12/06/19 22:37 UTC
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What about how we 'level up' our characters? Can we do it there?


MikeD
Neptune #973889 Thu 13/06/19 04:11 UTC
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Alright. I've set up Roll20. Click here to join the new Roll20 game.

You won't see much, not even your characters. Once you log in, I'll have to link you to your characters which is just a royal pain, but how it works. Once I get you linked, you'll be able to enter your character sheet. Yes, it helps you level ... to a degree. We'll discuss more when the time comes.


-Nep
Neptune #973899 Thu 13/06/19 10:52 UTC
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OK joined. And had the time to upload Jaliera's pic too! smile

Neptune #973903 Thu 13/06/19 11:23 UTC
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OK. I attached Jaliera to you Gypsy.

BTW, does anyone know who "Doug B." is? I'm guessing it's Dugan?


-Nep
Neptune #973905 Thu 13/06/19 12:24 UTC
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just checked in, so I am good ta go <g>


MikeD
Neptune #973919 Thu 13/06/19 14:59 UTC
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Mike, You're linked to Bern now. I'll do my short how-to video tonight. For now, if you feel like fumbling about, go ahead.
Hint: Don't add spells to your sheet. There's a super easy way to do that.


-Nep
Neptune #973939 Thu 13/06/19 19:41 UTC
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Invite accepted. king noble scion me.

Neptune #973942 Thu 13/06/19 20:02 UTC
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Thanks Nep!


MikeD
Neptune #973943 Thu 13/06/19 20:10 UTC
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Ummm ... OK ... so, I found my character sheet there ... but how do I 'edit it'?


MikeD
Neptune #973947 Thu 13/06/19 21:01 UTC
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You wait for the short video that I promised smile
AJ, you now have access to your sheet.
I'm still waiting to find out who Doug B. is!


-Nep
Neptune #973969 Fri 14/06/19 05:40 UTC
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Doug B. = Dugan. I was just following Roll20's suggestion to use first name and initial for the display name, but I have now changed it to Dugan to avoid confusing everyone.

Last edited by Dugan; Fri 14/06/19 05:48 UTC.
Neptune #973977 Fri 14/06/19 12:08 UTC
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That's alright you can call yourself whatever you want. I just wasn't sure!

I didn't get a chance to do my video so I'll give you the quickest tutorial here. The key to doing data entry in the sheet is to click on the pencil. You'll see it just under your PC's name to the right of the gear. That toggles between edit mode and usage mode. Hold off on entering spells on your PC. I have a super easy way to do that using the !shaped script.

If you're eager to try things on your own, you will need to select your PC token by clicking on it. The status "bubbles" should pop open. Now go to the chat box and type in the following:
!shaped

That will then present you with a menu. Click on one of the spell search options and find the spell you want to add. Click on it and wait for the magic to happen.


-Nep
Neptune #973984 Fri 14/06/19 12:49 UTC
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OK. I made my video. I apologize about the poor audio. My built in microphone needs some sensitivity resetting as it picked up every keystroke and mouse slide.

How to Update your Character Sheet in Roll20.

It's really just the very basics. The sheet doesn't do all the things that you would want it to but it's much better than the text sheets that are all different.

And Dugan, you now have access to Davroar.


-Nep
Neptune #973993 Fri 14/06/19 14:07 UTC
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OK ... that worked. Got a start on it, but the sheet is really different from the one I created, so it is gonna take me some time!


MikeD
Neptune #974006 Fri 14/06/19 15:31 UTC
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We have a lot of time - about 2 weeks. I plan on finishing off the other game before then. Just some I's to dot and T's to cross.


-Nep
Neptune #974241 Mon 17/06/19 16:29 UTC
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Well I have done what I can with the sheet so far. Found it hard going. Your video helped but the sound quality wasn't great and I had to attune my ear to an American accent of course, made it not so easy for me. grin

Maybe you could take a look & advise?

Two principle areas of concern right now:

1) On the character sheet I started to enter stuff into Attributes & Abilities page - not sure I should have.

2) Got to the video part that deals with spells. You show yourself clicking on the minimise button - but I don't have one. Plus the background with the SKT graphic and all the character pics to the side? Can't seem to get to that.

So I think I am a bit stuck. Also don't seem to be able to add in my proficiences on tools & stealth so my stealth skill is understated. If I click to try to increase it from 7 to 9, it jumps to 10.

I know it is all likely to be me doing the wrong thing - or not doing the right thing grin - but I am in need of help now! smile

Thanks!

Neptune #974245 Mon 17/06/19 16:35 UTC
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You have gotten farther than I have Gypsy <sigh>


MikeD
Neptune #974268 Mon 17/06/19 21:13 UTC
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We might need a session of facilitated "in-person" virtual pc sheet building?

Neptune #974269 Mon 17/06/19 21:25 UTC
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Or maybe someone who knows it all can help old farts like me that can't 'grok' all this new stuff <weg>


MikeD
Neptune #974271 Mon 17/06/19 21:31 UTC
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I might take Zeim up on his suggestion and hold a session. I'll clue you all in. Gypsy, it looks like you were absolutely on the right track with the attributes. I'll try to redo the video with a few blimeys and cherrio's. smile


-Nep
Neptune #974318 Tue 18/06/19 10:56 UTC
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lol We don't all talk like that over here! And I'm from the north! Some of our phrases include:

'it's puthering' - raining hard
'like Piffy on a rock bun' - when you are forced to wait around because someone else hasn't done their bit
'I can't be mithered with all of this' - can't be bothered
'That was dead 'ard' - very difficult
'keks' - trousers
'put wood int 'ole' - shut the door

But I can speak the Queen's English too! grin

And glad to know I did something (some'at) right!

Neptune #974325 Tue 18/06/19 12:12 UTC
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You did.

And I redid the video. I used a headset. I talked slowly. I fine tuned my audio settings. I know that I have a really heavy NY accent - worse than Trumps! We don't really even speak English - that's yours. We speak American. I plan on taking a Duolingo course in English to help with my translation smile

Also, some things were tweaked in Roll20 to enable me to show you how to add weapons and other stuff easily to your sheet. The video is better and only a few minutes longer.

And I love those phrases! I have no idea how they evolved but they're cool.


-Nep
Neptune #974395 Wed 19/06/19 09:12 UTC
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Actually I have no idea where they come from either! grin

Pak & Andy were out with Martin and I one evening and I used the Piffy phrase. They didn't believe I hadn't made it up and Googled it. Amazingly it came up as a Northern expression.

Quote

It seems to be a humorous echo of “sitting like Patience on a monument”. As you say, it refers to a person who is being left out, ignored, or kept hanging about pointlessly. (Americans might say that they are sitting “like a bump on a log”, though this suggests somebody who is stupidly silent rather than one who is being ignored.)


And I will go back and revisit the video. Same link? smile And I appreciate the efforts you are making on our behalf! smile Busy weekend coming up though and I have some other stuff on this week. Might be next week before I can get back into it.

Neptune #974405 Wed 19/06/19 18:20 UTC
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Well, hell, around here we tend to speak Suthun accents. smile

Neptune #974412 Wed 19/06/19 20:12 UTC
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What is that 'we' shit ... white man <weg>


MikeD
Neptune #974466 Thu 20/06/19 14:30 UTC
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Again, no rush on the PC's and if anyone needs help, things are just starting to return to normal at work and at home, so I can assist with PC updates.


-Nep
Neptune #974626 Sun 23/06/19 05:08 UTC
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I will take a look at the video and get my character done as much as possible when I get back from vacation.

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I'll have a play with Roll20's character sheet myself. Looks interesting!

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I would have pressed to play online on a rare occasion but we have all-too-frequent terrible audio problems with Roll20. The sheet is mostly used for that type of play. I wanted to use it to bring consistency to the sheet format here.


-Nep
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Well ... I don't see any reason why we can't always 'adjust' how much we do here and how much there as we see how it all works in practice <g>


MikeD
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Yup. That's why I said I'll help anyone out trying to set up PC's and the like.


-Nep
Neptune #974710 Mon 24/06/19 20:02 UTC
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Yeah ... but ... apparently ... it needed to be said again <chuckle>


MikeD
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That Roll20 character sheet is surprisingly tricksy. I got some of the way but hit a bit of a roadblock when trying to add the monk's unarmed strike as a weapon. The Compendium only seemed to list it as a proficiency. I expect the unarmed strike is listed as a roll somewhere else on the sheet by default, rather than as a weapon, but didn't find it before being drafted into stompy giant robot action in Titanfall|2.

Neptune #974817 Wed 26/06/19 15:14 UTC
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LOL. Yeah, not that easy. In fact, we have a player that has spent the time to really snaz up our PCs in our home game.

Sometimes samples help. For the curious, I copied over the PCs from my Rise of Tiamat game that I ran for my FTF pals. There are samplings of some really good character sheets there. They may be slow to open because they're 20th level and chock full of godlike awesomeness. Our guru played the monk (Kwai) so you might want to peek at how he set it up.

Lingo - Halfling Rogue
Keryon - Dragonborn Paladin
Amnon (Kalista) - Tiefling Warlock
Marcus - Ranger
Pete - Druid
John Halifax - Fighter
Kwai - Monk


-Nep
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Just a quick update for everyone.

We've wrapped up LMP and now I'll start prepping in earnest for SKT. It'll be a week or two still as I do some admin work.

Note that we'll play here, primarily and I'll work with everyone to get the sheets updated and ready in that time.


-Nep
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Busy now and over the weekend. I'll try to have another go at Jaliera next week smile

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Neptune, I started filling in my character sheet, yet when I tried to run !shaped in the chat bubble nothing appeared for me. I will try again and let you know if it is still a problem.

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I have occasionally had issues with the !shaped script too, Dugan. Sometimes when they make updates to the site that script can have problems for a short time.

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Dugan,
Sometimes it crashes and I need to restart it. Typically this is during the game and I open a separate session just to restart the script. I'll check.

As I said, DO NOT STRESS OVER THIS!!!


-Nep
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I came across these and they're pretty good. I think that they add a lot of flavor.


If there's a video for your faction, I recommend that you watch it. While the pages for the Lord's Alliance and the Order of the Gauntlet are disappointing, a few of the blurbs are provocative wink

Very important: These are someone's unofficial extrapolations so you can use some, none or all of what you want for the factions you belong to. For example, while I thought that the initiation ritual for the Emerald Enclave was kind of cool, it conflicts with other plans that were being made.

Feel free to post or PM me your thoughts.

BTW, I'm starting to get stuff together to start the game soon.



-Nep
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As for your PC's, I think that the list below was what you stated that you planned to do with your down time. It's all etched in mud right now but it's time for the mud to dry:
  • Jaliera returns to Neverwinter to visit with her mentor.
  • Davroar planned to accompany Jaliera. (I'm unclear about his further plans. The video above calls for the initiation to be on some island in the Vilhon Reach - about 2000 miles away! It doesn't have to be.)
  • Ryssa wants to get with Athelor, the cleric who had trained and mentored her in the service of Lathander.
  • Bern wants to spend some 'quality time' in the Cormanthor Forrest. I have no issue with that initiation happens there.
  • Kriv needs to report what happened here to the leadership of the Lord's Alliance. That will take place in Waterdeep. Then he wants to check in with his clan at Norixius Keep.
  • Zeim, you're working on your character and we need to figure out where he'll be.


I'm posting a reference to downtime activities. All PC's will need "alone" time at some point between LMP and SKT, to do class and faction related downtime activities. We'll work through it all but you have 5 months between adventures.


-Nep
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How much time is there? Considering how long it would take to arrange and perform the initiation in the Cormanthor Forest and travel time ... Would there be enough time for Dav to 1.) meet Jal for her trip back ... or 2.) accompany her on her trip up ... or 3.) maybe both?


MikeD
Neptune #976400 Tue 23/07/19 12:21 UTC
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OK ... just tried the EE link. I gave up when after allowing scripts and content for 30 3rd party sites it =still= wasn't happy and wanted more access. I am currently scrubbing my drive to make sure there isn't any 'crap' on my system!!!


MikeD
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Nep - from the stuff above it sounds like it doesn't matter if we're spread out all over the place? If so, my pc will be either in Silverymoon or justy leaving from there.

Neptune #976403 Tue 23/07/19 15:50 UTC
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Mike,

Re:EE
Hmmm. It opened right up for me and I've got top-gun virus protections here at work.

Try this direct link to the Video ... or not! If you're skittish, I'll create a recording of the recording and send you that link tonight.


-Nep
Neptune #976404 Tue 23/07/19 15:58 UTC
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Zeim and Mike,

It's not much of a reveal but just before the group disburses, you're all going to be invited to the grand reopening of the Wave Echo Cave mines which is scheduled for Highharvestide (figure that's September 30th). We'll start the game at Greengrass festival (figure April 30th). Your downtime (the interlude) will be between then.

So yes, Zeim, your PC can be from Silverymoon.

And yes, Mike, there's time to do all that.


-Nep
Neptune #976409 Tue 23/07/19 17:26 UTC
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Damn, that one isn't much better <sigh> I =HATE= what the internet has become :-/

Sorry to be such a 'bother' ... but just so ya know ... I have used an 'add on' called 'NoScript' ever since I got 'jacked' by a site that had been hacked and a malicious script was added. It is a great add-in that blocks =all= 3rd party sites that are 'called' when I open a page ... unless I manually allow them. FWIW ... I have not been hacked since <vbg> <fingers crossed>


MikeD
Neptune #976413 Tue 23/07/19 18:26 UTC
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Yeah. These are safe but I understand. I'll do my video and post tonight.


-Nep
Neptune #976414 Tue 23/07/19 18:35 UTC
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Looking forward to it <g>


MikeD
Neptune #976458 Wed 24/07/19 03:52 UTC
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OK. Here goes: The Emerald Enclave


-Nep
Neptune #976471 Wed 24/07/19 12:22 UTC
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That one worked Nep, thanks. Now is there a printed version of that somewhere?


MikeD
Neptune #976472 Wed 24/07/19 12:37 UTC
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Needy aren't we smile

Here. Try this: Emerald Enclave


-Nep
Neptune #976487 Wed 24/07/19 16:13 UTC
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Thanks. No one is perfect (especially me <g>) I remember the things that I read =MUCH= better than the things I have watched <shrug>


MikeD
Neptune #976639 Fri 26/07/19 15:09 UTC
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Nice pic Zeim. smile Let me guess.. dwarven cleric? wink

Nep, I just haven't found the time this week to have another crack at Jaliera. FTF all weekend then only days before I go away on holiday. Somehow I doubt I'll make it before I return at the end of Aug, sorry!

Neptune #976646 Fri 26/07/19 17:16 UTC
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A quick update as to where we're at.

I'm already writing the re-intro posts. I might trickle them in since they're PC specific. The first one is going up today.

In the mean time, please finalize any PC updates in Roll20. I want to print off those sheets (into PDF format) and place them here, in DreamLyrics. No, you won't be able to.

Zeim will be joining as a player/DM. I'll be doing the bulk of the running, but when I need a break, he'll take over and I'll play his PC.


-Nep
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Never did get the hang of those Roll20 sheets.

Neptune #976702 Sat 27/07/19 16:11 UTC
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Don't feel bad AJ ... I couldn't do mine either <sigh>


MikeD
Neptune #976903 Tue 30/07/19 19:16 UTC
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Not for nothing, that "Interlude" thread was meant to be a place where you could start posting...


-Nep
Neptune #976905 Tue 30/07/19 19:35 UTC
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Posted an intro youtube video in the "Lore" thread for the game.

Neptune #976909 Tue 30/07/19 20:32 UTC
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Yup ... saw it ... thanks <g> Not sure how it will help. Time will tell <weg>


MikeD
Neptune #977021 Thu 01/08/19 20:27 UTC
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Consider Storm Giant King is launched!

I actually posted an IC thread but nobody posted. I think that's because it was very open-ended. The thread, called "Interlude", will be where we play out this summer but there'll be some PMs. Read on...

Gypsy's going on a 3 week "holiday". I'm going to be away on a 2 week "vacation" around the same time. I'm betting that Mike's at Gencon right now and so on. So it's going to be slow to begin with. That's OK. Let's use August to accomplish the following:

1. Roleplay your down-time (time not necessarily together, between adventures)
2. Get your character sheets updated.

When I get back from vacation in early September, we'll wrap up the Interlude. Some notes about downtime. Although we don't need a lengthy interaction (time's of the essence), STK has a measure of intrigue and politics. We will have some PM threads for faction related interactions. With a measure of time in months, we'll do some things in parallel. Davroar and Jaliera do hang out together but Jaliera will need some private time with her mentor and Davroar needs to go with Bern to get initiated. That's fine. I'll create some PM threads for them and they'll have transpired months apart but be played out simultaneously. This is where you learn about some "factional" objectives. Some of these objectives might be conflict with each other. Hence, PM. I'm also going to PM you by the end of this weekend with a thread to start that discussion.


I've worked on some of your character sheets. I don't want anyone to stress about Roll20. I'll take care of Roll20 and create PDF's of the character sheet which will be posted in DreamLyrics. But some of you need to level up to 6th. Dugan and Zeim are there. The rest of you need to make your decisions about stuff. Please just update them in DreamLyrics, in the LMP forum, and I'll get them updated in Roll20. Post a quick response paragraph saying what changes are being made. For instance, Bern gets to choose a 2nd favorite enemy and a 2nd Natural Explorer terrain. He might post a reply that says "At 6th level he gains 9 hps, selects Giants as a favored enemy and Mountains as a favorite terrain." That simple. Some of you may need to add a spell or bump up some other numbers. Some of you might decide to add a complete new class to the mix. That's your call. Plz let me know. I'll get your sheets created and post a link for you to review.


-Nep
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Since Zhuirentel is not with the group, if you want a thread where you and I can post her actions, motivations, and travel adventures to Phandalin you can start one.

Neptune #977024 Fri 02/08/19 04:36 UTC
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Zhu will get her own PM thread.


-Nep
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I'll try to update her in LMP before I go! Thanks! smile

Neptune #977036 Fri 02/08/19 12:38 UTC
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At 6th, Bern gets a few hit points and that seems to be it <sigh> so not much to PM about <g>

And Nep, I have not been to GenCon in many years :-/


MikeD
Neptune #977042 Fri 02/08/19 13:45 UTC
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I have update Jaliera's sheet in LMP gallery and added a couple of posts at the end of that thread by way of explanation. smile

See you all in a few weeks! grin

Neptune #977117 Sat 03/08/19 03:43 UTC
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6th for a ranger isn't a major leap.

The line In my previous post is probably a good choice for Bern: "At 6th level he gains 9 hps, selects Giants as a favored enemy and Mountains as a favorite terrain."


-Nep
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that is fine. Thanks! <g>


MikeD
Neptune #977446 Fri 09/08/19 16:33 UTC
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Guys,
I've posted PM threads but a few of you have deleted yourselves from the PMs without replying at all. I'm curious, why?
I posted an in-game thread too and nobody responded?
Am I missing something?


-Nep
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Well ... as far as I know, I didn't delete any PMs. As to the IC thread, I was kinda hoping we could get my character sorted, but ... if there is nothing you think could impact that in the leveling up, I can get right on that <g>


MikeD
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I've got pretty much all the info I need to level Ryssa up and I'll do my best to get that recorded this weekend.

Neptune #977492 Sat 10/08/19 00:55 UTC
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I'll do some work on the character sheets this weekend too. I'm waiting to hear from AJ and Dugan in PM.
Zeim, I didn't forget you. I've been preparing for FTF.


-Nep
Neptune #977495 Sat 10/08/19 01:22 UTC
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I know. Sorry to hear about tonight's game.

Neptune #977516 Sat 10/08/19 03:00 UTC
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NP


-Nep
Neptune #977534 Sat 10/08/19 08:05 UTC
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Neptune, I have not seen a new PM from you. I was clearing out a bunch of Acro PM's from my recent round as dealer, so I hope I did not accidentally delete it. Let me know if I did.

Neptune #977540 Sat 10/08/19 13:44 UTC
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Going to be finalizing the level up of Kriv on the old sheet, then posting in PMs.

Neptune #977594 Sun 11/08/19 13:06 UTC
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Dugan,
Understood. I lose something every time I clean up sad


-Nep
Neptune #977660 Tue 13/08/19 00:06 UTC
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Nep,

Check my first attempt at a 6th level Cleric character sheet for Ryssa in the gallery.

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Will do.


-Nep
Neptune #977820 Thu 15/08/19 01:27 UTC
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Status update....

I think that all the PC's are properly set up now, for the most part in Roll20. Please review the PDF print outs of those in the new thread in the gallery. Let me know of any mistakes, alterations or omissions. I am far from perfect at this sort of stuff.

Some of you have gotten going in PM's. I may not have responded yet but I have some more new threads to start and I do owe responses. I'm going to create them all in PMs so please look for those.

But I'm running out of time before I go on vacation. I'll use some of my flight time to work offline on what remains of those PM threads to start.

My trip is 14 days to Israel with a side trip to Petra in Jordan. I hear it's really hot (105F/42C) in Eilat. YIKES! This is a sight-see-until-we-drop vacation, and involves a lot of physical activity. (Yes, I'll drink lots of water, wear a hat, stay in the shade, take it easy and all that - I promise). What it means is that I may post or may be too exhausted to post.

We'll get rolling in this forum when I return.


-Nep
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Thanks a bunch for sorting Jaliera! smile I will check her on my return.

Neptune #977877 Thu 15/08/19 11:56 UTC
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No prob. I hope to have some PM thread up for you by then!


-Nep
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Have fun Nep, but be safe!


MikeD
Neptune #977881 Thu 15/08/19 13:27 UTC
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My only question at first glance is about Kriv. He is listed with an alignment of LE, but his Draconic Ancestry is listed as Gold Dragon? Wouldn't Red Dragon be a better fit? It gives the exact same effect on abilities and powers as Gold Dragon. Just wondering.

Neptune #977891 Thu 15/08/19 17:37 UTC
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MikeD - Thanks.
Kriv is what he is wink

Another thing for all of you to do is to consider down-time activities. Each of these takes time and money. After taking a 5 month game-time hiatus, we'll be doing some math on living expenses. That should dry up some of your funds. Consider these:

  • Craft a non-magical item
  • Practice a profession
  • Recuperate
  • Research
  • Training (Language, tools)
  • Buy magic item
  • Carouse
  • Craft magic item
  • Commit crime
  • Gamble
  • Pit Fighting
  • Relax
  • Religious service
  • Sell a magic item
  • Scribe a spell scroll
  • Something else ... lets discuss


Some of these are in the Player's Handbook. Some are in the DMG. Some are my own. Let me know what you're interested in doing.


-Nep
Neptune #977892 Thu 15/08/19 17:45 UTC
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Just to keep a record of what I have been thinking: Practice a Profession (as in work in the forest) ... Religious Service (not sure if working for the EE counts for that, but I hope so <g>)


MikeD
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The EE won't help alone, but there's sure to be a higher level cleric of a "nature" go that you could do work for. Pick the deity.


-Nep
Neptune #977903 Thu 15/08/19 20:06 UTC
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Ummm ... got a list of choices handy? <g>


MikeD
Zeim #977967 Fri 16/08/19 07:22 UTC
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Originally Posted by Zeim
My only question at first glance is about Kriv. He is listed with an alignment of LE, but his Draconic Ancestry is listed as Gold Dragon? Wouldn't Red Dragon be a better fit? It gives the exact same effect on abilities and powers as Gold Dragon. Just wondering.


Full dragons are colour coded for your convenience. Dragonborn are not. Anyone making a presumption about Kriv based on the colour of his scales rather than the content of his character, caveat emptor.

Ironically, both the normally-LG Gold Dragon and the normally-CE Red Dragon are equidistant from the LE noble scion on the alignment grid in any case.

Downtime activities

Kriv would definitely lean towards research, training, and crafting magic items. Possibly a profession as a scholar or historian. Big on self-improvement, not overly religious, disdainful of unlawful pursuits or laziness. Enchanting his maul or crafting a magical one would be a priority.


Character sheet omissions

I'm not seeing Kriv's longbow or his dungeoneering gear, nor his noble accoutrements and accessories, or his trinket spider. Also, do we need the full list of fighting styles as opposed to just Great Weapon Fighting?

Neptune #977969 Fri 16/08/19 13:03 UTC
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I will make necessary adjustments to the sheet.

As for downtime activities, all require time and money. "Research" is in the PHB and shared as part of the SRD:

Quote
RESEARCHING
The time between adventures is a great chance to perform research, gaining insight into mysteries that have unfurled over the course of the campaign.

Research can include poring over dusty tomes and crumbling scrolls in a library or buying drinks for the locals to pry rumors and gossip from their lips.

When you begin your research, the DM determines whether the information is available, how many days of downtime it will take to find it, and whether there are any restrictions on your research (such as needing to seek out a specific individual, tome. or location). The DM might also require you to make one or more ability checks. such as an Intelligence (Investigation) check
to find clues pointing toward the information you seek or a Charisma (Persuasion) check to secure someone's aid. Once those conditions are met, you learn the information if it is available.

For each day of research. you must spend 1 gp to cover your expenses. This cost is in addition to your normal lifestyle expenses (as discussed in chapter 5).


Dugan asked me about language. That requires 250 days and 1 gp per day. I offered a non-binary solution, learning a language well enough to understand and communicate "some". Meaning with 100 days of training, there's a 40% chance of success in understanding or being understood. Failure means the evil DM gets to have fun with misunderstandings smile


-Nep
Neptune #977972 Fri 16/08/19 14:05 UTC
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AJ - Point well taken (the GL/CE v LE dynamic).

Neptune #977981 Fri 16/08/19 14:39 UTC
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I've always thought that there's more of a difference between chaos and law than good and evil. Good is a matter of perspective. Your enemy is always evil. For instance, is slavery evil? Way back when, I started a game called "Black-White-Gray" where there was a Good camp, a Neutral Camp and an Evil camp. Players were to join one of the three. Some of you signed up for that game. As we were setting up the game, a player that opted to be in the "Good" camp wanted to own slaves. In my opinion that was "evil", but that was my opinion.


-Nep
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Mike,
To answer your question, yes, I do. Here it is:
  • Build a stronghold - Anyone want a castle or manor? (DMG)
  • Craft a non-magical item (PHB)
  • Practice a profession - earn some gold (PHB)
  • Recuperate - if you were ill or wounded (PHB)
  • Research - Dig deep into scrolls of lore (PHB)
  • Training - Learn a language or how to use a set of tools (PHB)
  • Buy magic item - spend your gold (homebrew)
  • Carouse - Have fun, meet people. There are consequences.(DMG)
  • Commit crime - Easy gold ... unless you get caught. (homebrew)
  • Gamble - Easy come, easy go? (homebrew)
  • Pit Fighting - Earn some gold, get hurt (homebrew)
  • Running a business - Some make it, some fail (DMG)
  • Sowing Rumors - sway public opinion, make someone look good or bad (DMG)
  • Training to go up levels - This is mandatory 4 times in your career. (DMG/Homebrew)
  • Relax - Chillaxing (homebrew)
  • Religious service - Gain the favor of a church (homebrew)
  • Sell a magic item - find someone to take it off your hands (DMG)
  • Craft magic item - Expensive and time consuming (DMG)
  • Gaining Renown - Make a name for yourself within your faction (DMG)
  • Scribe a spell scroll Expensive and time consuming (homebrew)
  • Something else ... lets discuss


I'm going to work with the "official" stuff in the PHB and DMG (which you all have access to) and some homebrew options, including a tempering of the details (as outlined above). Also, I'm using a nice Homebrew Downtime Activities publication for inspiration but there's stuff that would be tweaked.

Dugan, take note. There are some more items here than what I posted for you.


-Nep
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How expensive and time consuming are we talking about for crafting and scribing? Are they feasible in the timeframe with our current resources?

Neptune #977987 Fri 16/08/19 15:04 UTC
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Each are different. The "links" for the DMG and PHB are in Roll20 for use in our game.

You'll note that the homebrew document changes some of the details. You have 5 months. "Training to level up" is mandatory, as stated above and before. You are training for levels 6-10 now.


-Nep
Neptune #977999 Fri 16/08/19 16:41 UTC
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I am still liking the practice a profession (forester) as one. Are any of the deities associated with the EE focused on nature or something similar?


MikeD
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ALL three (Eldath, Mielikki, or Silvanus) are.


-Nep
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Since we're spending some of our hard-won gold... Is everyone's hard-won gold tally accurate?

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Probably not, but I'll take corrective action at some point. Call me the Taxman.


-Nep
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I remember a song about 'the tax man' ... and it was not pretty <chuckle>

Do any of the three have something that you think would attract Bern more than the others?


MikeD
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We can probably use these for ideas:
Silvanus
Eldath
Mielikki


-Nep
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Silvanus seems the most applicable <g>


MikeD
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Crafting a +1 maul seems doable depending on funds and seems in character for Kriv, being a practical development that hones his skills, tests his mastery of the Art and improves his effectiveness. Could tie neatly into Research into the Forge of Spells as well. Adding in Training, then top up with money-positive Practicing a Profession, in the employ of either the LA or Norixius Keep, should round out the time.

Neptune #978447 Sat 24/08/19 06:39 UTC
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Just a quick wave from Israel. As I suspected, the Internet here is terrific but we've got close to zero down-time. As Zeim alluded to in the *** Members Availability *** thread, I am famous for the insane itineraries that I put together. My cousin here saw the itinerary and used that exact word "insane" and also said "impossible" when he saw it. We logged apx. 50,000 steps in 3 days in 95F/35C heat. My posting rate is as slow as I suspected it would be.


-Nep
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I'm not back yet either so I guess we can just wait a few days! grin

Neptune #978472 Sun 25/08/19 03:54 UTC
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Works for me. I'm back in a week.


-Nep
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It's end of August, so I've moved LMP to the Hall of Fame. Nice! grin

https://www.dreamlyrics.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=4&page=1

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Indeed. Very Nice!! <g> Looking forward to carrying on


MikeD
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Me, too! smile

Neptune #978768 Sat 31/08/19 03:34 UTC
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Thanks!


-Nep
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Hi Nep. You're not moving as fast as I thought you would, though you did say the game would only just have started when I return in Dec. Is it OK for me to work on a player character here now? I figure you might not actually have room in the party when Dec rolls around, but if you do at least you'll know what I'm intending to join with.

Neptune #978883 Mon 02/09/19 16:43 UTC
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Hi Neil,

I guess that I didn't articulate it well enough. I knew there would be a summer slowdown. And although you can't see it, there has been a bit of posting but all in PMs. I've used the summer for that. Some players are owed responses in PMs and some have yet to even be engaged there.

All that being said, the answer is yes. I'll start a PM thread for the two of us to work things out because there should be purpose to the PC. I'm very fine with taking it very slowly.


-Nep
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Yeah, I thought you might be storming ahead by now so didn't want to be extra baggage. But I figure if I get something in the works now, the quicker I'll be able to join when the time comes. Thanks Nep. smile

Neptune #978971 Wed 04/09/19 14:41 UTC
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To everyone,

While it may seem that nothing's going on, lots of stuff is. I kinda wish that there was a possibility of having restricted threads within a forum, like PM threads, to keep all of the "private" stuff associated and within the game. If there is, I don't know about it. There is movement in the PM threads so if I've not responded, I will soon.

Also, as you can see, Neal is creating a new PC for the game. I'm assuming that Pandemonium will continue to be MIA.

My assessment of where we are in the PM threads make me think that we're about 2 or so weeks away from posting a more in-game thread. All PCs will be coming into the game with a mission of sort. If you've been given that mission, hold tight. It means that I'm pretty much done with your PM threads.


-Nep
Neptune #978977 Wed 04/09/19 16:33 UTC
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Only option I know of is to have individual public threads and simply ask everyone not to read other people's threads if you don't want them to know what is happening there. An honor system.

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Another update.
Neal is joining the party bringing the number of PCs to 7 which is a good number. He's playing a Triton Paladin, having retired Chandan. I'm working with him to figure out where he enters from but we're not going to wait for him.

I'm on another mini-vacation but I'm thinking that we're a day or two from the official in-character launch of the game.


-Nep
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Do you want me to create a link farm at the top of the forum, rather than clicking through all those sub-forums?

We could have something like:

Roll20 | Forgotten Realms Wiki | Game Resources
Arus | Bern | Davroar | Jaliera | Kriv | Ryssa | Zhu

nem #979188 Sun 08/09/19 19:19 UTC
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That would be nice smile


-Nep
Neptune #979207 Mon 09/09/19 10:35 UTC
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Cool. Did that. If you aggregate your game resources into one thread at some point, I can add a link to the farm for that too.

Neptune #979214 Mon 09/09/19 15:08 UTC
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That looks awesome! Let's go with this for now but you've whetted my appetite wink

BTW, if you haven't noticed the main thread post, the game has started. I'm continuing with several of you in PM still but you should all have enough to start playing in the forum.


-Nep
Neptune #979224 Mon 09/09/19 16:34 UTC
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Well, I =had= been waiting for the PM thread to finish ... not wanting to prejudice what was happening there. But I will go take a look now ... but only since you asked so nicely <weg>


MikeD
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I don't think that anything in the PM's is of "immediate" consequence in the game. It will be later so we can continue in parallel.


-Nep
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Yeah <g> I have started to realize that ... but didn't a few days ago <wink>


MikeD
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An important word about the factions.

There is a terrible risk of metagaming. It'll be important to play as if your PCs don't know as much as you know. I certainly waffled about even playing out the factions but factions provide a real opportunity to build character depth.

What do your PC's know?

Not much really yet. Some factions are bold and open. The Lord's Alliance and the Order of the Gauntlet are pretty open about who their agents are. The other factions are closed about who they are. So Jaliera, Davroar, Bern and Ryssa's affiliations are secret.

There's conflict and competition between some of the factions too. What is in the interest of one faction may not in the interest of the other. That's why we went PM to start.

And as far as citizens of Phandelver, they have NO clue about each other's affiliations.

Therefore, Exeter, please amend your latest post. I should have made this clearer from the start. Sorry.


-Nep
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Nep - In reference to some of the historical events Zhu mentioned in the current thread, what year is it now? Note: The Spellplague occurred in 1385 and was an earth shattering event. Every pc (perhaps not every player wink ) would know what it was.

Neptune #980049 Fri 27/09/19 18:11 UTC
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Zeim,
You beat me to the punch.

All,
Replies were too quick for me to chime in but I'll do it now. In this world, not knowing about the Spellplague is like not knowing about World War II five years after it concluded. The event was cataclysmic. All the rest of the information that Zhu provided about herself might be subject to exposure so there's that. Remember that there's a roll for pretty much everything. While the player may not know something, the character might. Even untrained, a "history" check is applicable. Jaliera, who is proficient in Arcana, probably knows a lot about Mythal's and Feywild too. How much is know depends on the rolls. That goes for all the things mentioned in Zeim's post.

And as for the current year, it's 1490. See the Calendar in SKT: Lore.



-Nep
Neptune #980053 Fri 27/09/19 19:09 UTC
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Zeim,
I moved your post here, to OOC, where it belongs....

Quote

(OOC - AJ - Based on Nep's answer I think you need to make a History roll).

All - the Spellplague was an event from roughly 100 years back where the Goddess of Magic, Mystra, was assassinated by two other Gods, Shar and Cyric. When that happened the 'Weave', i.e. the things that ties magic together, was broken and no Wizard spells functioned at all.

The Spellplague began a 10 year period known as the 'Time of Troubles', during the this time Wild Magic storms were frequent and devastating. Powerful earthquakes and Wild Magic caused entire lands to vanish or be created, countries were decimated. Magical Mythals (permanent and powerful Elven magical artifacts) were destroyed. It was cataclysmic.

The Time of Troubles ended with the Second Sundering, where a new Goddess of Magic ascended and established order. The Goddess of Magic is always called Mystra. The current Mystra is the third of her name.


I have to check some of this stuff, but I think the Times of Trouble were before the Spellplague (D&D 2nd Ed). I'll post a link to a better history page to help put this all in perspective.

There's NO need to roll history for Spellplague. As I said, it is very common knowledge. A roll would be needed for something more specific.


-Nep
Neptune #980059 Fri 27/09/19 20:55 UTC
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Thanks for moving.

Ass for the history, there some "fuzzy" history each time they created a new version. D&D 4E and D&D 5E especially have histories that don't perfectly align.

Neptune #980060 Fri 27/09/19 21:14 UTC
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Yeah, Zeim ... and I can't run some win 7 apps on win 10 ... so what's the point? <shrug> ... except that I an not moving to 10 <weg>

Yeah it =would= be nice if you could ... apply a few 'tweaks' and continue on, but name me one other ... 'endeavor' where they 'guarantee' migration with out 'adaptation' ... or something like that <chuckle>


MikeD
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With regards making history and arcana rolls, it seems pertinent at this juncture to point out that this forum does not currently have an active, player-accessible dice roller.

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!!!! I shall make the request of the sysops. Does anyone know one? smile


-Nep
Neptune #980107 Sat 28/09/19 16:03 UTC
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GMs can add their own. Need help? smile

Jaliera is a bit of a conundrum. Brought up in a sheltered environment with her parents until she was 13, taken in and virtually a prisoner for the next year or two.. then taken in and trained by her mentor who is a sage. Her learning and experience has only really happened in the last 12 month and she is only 16. There will be gaps, maybe even wide enough for huge events to fall into but I am happy to be advised or to roll or just to use the ignorance as a chance for dialogue! grin

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isn't that where the fun comes from?? <wink>

You design a 'history' which offers 'opportunities' ... but also 'frustrations' ... at the GM's discretion. But isn't that how it works in life ... with out the GM, of course?? <chuckle>


MikeD
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Well lookey there! Made it all by my self ... with a little bit of help from my friends smile


-Nep
Neptune #980119 Sat 28/09/19 20:15 UTC
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Knew you could do it <wink>


MikeD
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Well done! smile

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Sorry guys. Last week was a busy week. I have a lot of non DL-stuff that needed/still needs attention prior to my next post. Hopefully I'll get to it in the next day or two.


-Nep
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Thanks for the update. Take your time. We will be here when you manage to ditch the RL issues that are interfering with the important stuff here <g>


MikeD
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RL has to come first! smile

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Worth mentioning that Kriv did not mention the Forge of Spells out loud, choosing his words to impart meaning only to those that knew of it.

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Doesn't change Bern's reaction to his comments <weg>


MikeD
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That is true. I misread your commentary as a spoken comment.


-Nep
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I am pretty devastated about Exeter and after I curl up into a ball about losing my friend, I'll get back to everyone about proceeding.


-Nep
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Take yer time ... I am reeling too <sigh>


MikeD
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Right there with you.

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We are all feeling it Nep. I feel I have a responsibility to everyone here but I can't find it in my heart to continue with everything right now. We all need some grieving time. I miss him.

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Yes. We will continue onward after a period of mourning. Neil will be coming back so we are not short a player.

All sorts of things come into my mind. This last post of mine in particular...

"A copper to the Lady returns tenfold in gold," she began, using a common prayer to Tymora to begin. "Tharden's fortune will now pass on to his brothers..." Her prayer went on for a bit and then Luminmorn said his prayer which began with "From death, life for there is always another dawn..." and his prayer also went on for a few solemn moments before turning to Ryssa to say her prayers. All the while, the Rockseeker brothers knelt by their brother's tomb, with their foreheads resting on the stone slab that covered him."

It's like I'm in that cavern now, needing those same solemn thoughts.

I decided to share this post from our PM's between LMP and SKT with you. His last sentence is so fitting...

Ryssa


The glory of Lathander suffused the temple and gave Ryssa Noman a feeling of warmth and rectitude to be inside among her fellow Dawnbringers.

She smiled warmly at the sight of her mentor and moved close to the Priest, paused and kissed the large sunburst embossed on his holy ring of the Morninglord.

"Father Athelor," she murmured as she got to her feet. "It is so good to once again be in your presence."

Without conscious volition she reached up and touched the large scar which disfigured her left cheek. The elderly priest there in front of her had saved her from her attackers and set her upon the path to become a scion of Lathander.

"I have been - most recently - in the company of heroes at Phandelver where we had been hired to find and save the brother of a dwarf who had been hidden there in the Lost Mines."

Ryssa shook her head slowly and smiled a wan smile.

"I met friends, lost some of them and then found others while I did my best to advance in the service of our Lord. All the time, I did my best to follow your guidance and gain the approval of the Morninglord."


-Nep
Neptune #981520 Wed 30/10/19 16:55 UTC
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<heh heh heh> That was all him!!! Thanks for sharing that!


MikeD
Neptune #981565 Thu 31/10/19 12:30 UTC
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I have sooo many game/social memories of Ex. We have played, gamed, conversed, chatted almost every day for 25 years, on CompuServe then here. Still can't believe he is gone.

Neptune #981599 Fri 01/11/19 16:39 UTC
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I know that Exeter would not have wanted this game to stop because of him. We will play on and think of him as we do.

Ryssa was an important healer for the party but Davroar is one and Neal, when he joins, is playing a paladin so that is covered. I do have to rethink a few things because I was going to lean on Ryssa for the important hooks into the adventure. We still can move forward. I will.


-Nep
Neptune #981600 Fri 01/11/19 17:45 UTC
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Don't forget that Bern can cast a few healing spells as well. He just never wanted to feel like he was 'poaching' on Ryssa's specialty <wink>


MikeD
Neptune #981604 Fri 01/11/19 18:52 UTC
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Ooooo ... nice tribute post Nep!!!!!


MikeD
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Just in case you didn't notice, there was a new post the other day that I thought would get this game rolling again.


-Nep
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I saw the post ... but not much there for Bern to respond to. Sorry <sigh>


MikeD
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Welcome Neal!

Nep - don't forget to re-upload Zhu's sheet to the forum to account for the magic items she has.

Neptune #982098 Sat 09/11/19 19:13 UTC
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OK. Both sheets updated. I won't have much time to post today.


-Nep
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Welcome back Neil! grin

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Thank you thank you! I was expecting to hand back the extra duties I've been doing for maternity cover in December, but now it's moved to February if the lady ever returns at all. (Heck, I can understand wanting to spend time with your baby. What's the point in having it otherwise?) So yes, I remain busier than I'd like but c'est la vie. Can't all have MikeD's lifestyle. razz

I'm not playing Chandan btw. I felt like I'd told his story for the most part, so I'm joining you with a triton paladin. What can I say, I enjoyed the Aquaman movie (and its sub-1980 Flash Gordon vibe)!

So did someone mention magic items!? grin

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The "other" new PC, Zhu did.
I'll work with you so that we're all on an even playing field once the party meets you.
I just need them to post so that I can move matters forward.


-Nep
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<heh heh heh> All ya have ta do Neil is 'live long enough' <chuckle> If not for my friends and games here ... I might have 'quit' sooner rather than later <wink>

Other than that ... =damn= ... Sounds like you are having a lot of 'crap' this week! But it =does= sound like it could be worth all the effort ... if it all works out! <fingers crossed> Otherwise, it sounds like 'mom' is the one with the problem!!


MikeD
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About Davroar, in bear form, picking up scents. D&D is pretty comprehensive. It's shocking how the authors thought of almost everything. Let's start with the rules verbatim...
Quote

TRACKING
Adventurers sometimes choose their path by following the tracks of other creatures-or other creatures might track the adventurers! To track, one or more creatures must succeed on a Wisdom (Survival) check. You might require trackers to make a new check in any of the following circumstances:
• They stop tracking and resume after finishing a short or long rest. The trail crosses an obstacle, such as a river, that shows no tracks.
• The weather conditions or terrain changes in a way that makes tracking harder.

The DC for the check depends on how well the ground shows signs of a creature's passage. No roll is necessary in situations where the tracks are obvious. For example, no check is needed to track an army advancing along a muddy road. Spotting tracks on a bare stone floor is more challenging, unless the creature being tracked leaves a distinct trail. Additionally, the passage of time often makes tracks harder to follow. In a situation where there is no trail to follow, you can rule that tracking is impossible.

The Tracking DCs table offers guidelines for setting the DC or, if you prefer, you can choose a DC based on your assessment of the difficulty. You can also grant advantage on the check if there's more than one set of tracks to follow, or disadvantage if the trail being followed passes through a well-trafficked area.

On a failed check, the character loses the trail but can attempt to find it again by making a careful search of the area. It takes 10 minutes to find a trail in a confined area such as a dungeon, or 1 hour outdoors.

TRACKING DCs
Code
Ground Surface                       DC
Soft surface such as snow            10
Dirt or grass                        15
Bare stone                           20
Each day since the creature passed   +5
Creature left a trail such as blood  -5



In the case of Davroar trying to establish a baseline scent, we'll say that the "Creature left a trail such as blood" (scent). Since footprints aren't so much an issue and you're just trying to discern one scent from another, we're going to start with a DC 15. But it's been almost a full tenday, so the scent has started to wear off. But few people have traversed this location and I believe this is doable but tough. Having read up on bloodhounds I've decided that the "each day since the creature has passed" in this case to be less of an impact. Instead of +5 I'm going to use +1 and we'll say it's 7 days (since in the thread I said "last week") The base DC I'm using 15. and with all the adjustments, the DC=22 but Davoar has advantage.

I hope that sounds fair.


-Nep
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Scientists say bears are about 7 times better than a bloodhound in tracking by scent, but given the elapsed time it sounds fair.

Neptune #982436 Fri 15/11/19 17:17 UTC
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A question about Jaliera's Familiar, Whisper. Since Whisper is not actually an Owl, but rather a Fey spirit in the form of an Owl, does it understand what others in the party are saying when they speak? Jaliera can communicate with it telepathically, but can she also speak to it and have it understand her? Just wondering whether it can understand speech, including other's speech.

So, for example, Jaliera can see and hear thru it's eyes and ears if it is within 100 feet of her, but lets say she sends it ahead to scout and while it is a mile or so away it encounters a group of people. If it sits and listens to them could it come back to Jaliera and tell her what they said?

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I would say no. It circumvents the limits that the 100 feet distance is all about. And if we're talking about an owl, what language does it speak? Even a fey owl?

DnD Beyond forum discussion on the matter

BTW, there are many other similar discussion and all agree.

Last edited by Neptune; Fri 15/11/19 17:25 UTC.

-Nep
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If it is a few spirit in the form of an owl, I would say that it at least understands 'fey'. If there is a direct 'mental' connection between the two, I would say that thoughts is thoughts. But that is just me <weg>


MikeD
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LOL. I would say that there's a chance it speaks Fey "owl" language, not the same language that a fairy speaks. We'll stick with the ruling that it can only take telepathic commands from Jaliera and let her see and hear through it's eyes and ears.


-Nep
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Nice try guys! lol

Neptune #982451 Fri 15/11/19 19:58 UTC
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I read that discussion thread, Nep, and the thing most of the comments miss is that the familiar is not an animal. In the very first message they mention that it is a spirit (celestial, fey or other), but then they continue on talking about the limitations of an actual animal, such as a Raven being able to mimic speech but not talk yet it being very intelligent.

That misses the point entirely. A Familiar is NOT an animal. It is a completely different creature who has simply taken on a common form. Discussing whether a normal Raven is intelligent or can speak is meaningless. It is what it can understand and then communicate telepathically to its Wizard.

For example, if Davroar changed into a Bear he would lose the ability to speak because a Bear does not have the physically complex vocal chords required to do more than growl. However, if he was standing among the party he does not lose the ability to understand what others are saying when they speak simply because he is in Bear form. If he could communicate telepathically there would be no reason people could not speak to him in Common and he replied telepathically.

That is what I am wondering whether a Familiar could do.

If it does not understand common, and there is a magical "Universal Translator" that allows Jaliera to communicate with it telepathically, even though they don't speak a common language, then fine. But the fact it "looks" like an Owl means very little.

Since it can understand Jaliera's telepathic communication it is, by definition, intelligent enough to understand communication and meaning. The question really (to me) simply comes down to a language thing.

As a different example, if Jaliera were to cast the Tongues spell on the familiar it should be able to talk to anyone (the spell description pretty clearly states it works on any creature), which supports the idea that it may be nothing more than a language thing.

(OOC - BTW guys, this is the kind of discussion that Nep and my FTF group could argue over during a game session for hours.)

Last edited by Zeim; Fri 15/11/19 20:00 UTC.
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Quote

(OOC - BTW guys, this is the kind of discussion that Nep and my FTF group could argue over during a game session for hours.)

And the only way I can squash the debate and get back to playing is by uttering the following words...

"The Evil DM has made his decision and it's final."

As Gypsy said, nice try smile


-Nep
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OK ... go ahead and dismiss what I suggested above. But then that begs the question ... what is the point of a familiar that cannot 'converse' with it's 'partner'???

Just asking <weg>


MikeD
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MikeD,

First, I didn't dismiss it. I said that Whisper can speak fey owl, whatever that is.

Second, I guess that you didn't carefully read the "ask". Jaliera communicates with Whisper telepathically within 100 feet. Zeim was trying to get Whisper to do scouting over a much greater distance. That's why I nixed the request.

So yes. Jaliera can and has often communicated with her familiar.


-Nep
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Actually no. I was simply trying to get an answer to whether a Familiar can understand speech.

Lets make the example simple. The party is sitting around a campfire and talking. Does Whisper understand anything that anyone is saying, including Jaliera? Or can it only understand when Jaliera communicates telepathically with it?

Neptune #982456 Fri 15/11/19 21:19 UTC
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Hey ... just making sure <g> And ... so ya know ... there =is= a reason I don't GM <wink>


MikeD
Neptune #982457 Fri 15/11/19 21:32 UTC
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Zeim,

It can only understand when Jaliera communicates telepathically with it.


-Nep
Neptune #982458 Fri 15/11/19 21:39 UTC
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That begs the question ... when you talk ... does that include 'telepathic communications ... or do you have to direct your thought??


MikeD
Neptune #982459 Fri 15/11/19 21:51 UTC
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Direct your thoughts. Nobody hears when Jaliera and Whisper are communicating. Maybe this is what she looks like (a female version)

[Linked Image]


-Nep
Neptune #982460 Fri 15/11/19 21:54 UTC
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Thanks.

Neptune #982466 Sat 16/11/19 03:45 UTC
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As Zeim said, these discussions could consume hours during our FTF game sessions smile

Sometimes I say no and then sleep on things and change my mind. So, I took some quiet time and did some more research and did some thinking. This time I further convinced myself to stick to my original decision. You may or may not agree, and that's OK. Sometimes these things go in the other direction. My findings are worth sharing.

First, and most important, allowing it would be very unbalancing. if I said "yes" the Find Familiar spell, which is a 1st level spell, would be more powerful than a 4th level spell. Consider Arcane Eye, a 4th level spell that provides visual reconnaissance for up to 1 hour, moving at best at 30 feet per round. It has a set duration. It has an effective range limit. It only provides a single sense - vision. If Whisper could scout for miles and eaves drop for unlimited time and communicate what she heard, is that proper 1st to 4th level balance? It's already an insanely unbalanced power because it gives Jaliera telepathy with a sentient entity. Telepathy is an 8th level spell!

Second, the spell is pretty specific about everything it allows. If they meant for that to be a power, it would have stated so. BTW, that picture of Bran Stark the Three-Eyed Raven is pretty dead-on what the communication would look like. Who didn't see Game of Thrones? I don't think that I could find a better depiction.

Third, and perhaps it's just icing on the cake for me, owls don't speak or understand a language. Note that the Monster Manual will state that for creatures in their listing. The owl is just an owl. Whisper is as intelligent as a real owl is and doesn't have abilities beyond that of that aside from the specific items listed. Jaliera can convey a desire for her to fly this way or that, to land here or there, to fetch some small item, etc. She can even cast a touch spell through her. But while the owl might receive and obey a command or suggestion, she is not more intelligent than the regular animal.

And not for nothing, I consider Whisper to be an integral character in this game. She even has a token on Roll20!


-Nep
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Be warned, serious nerdism lies ahead!!

When I was running Dungeon World, I found there was no definition as to what process druid shapeshifting is in the fiction, or what familiars are, etc., in keeping with that game's style of play. (You make up such things as befit your game in DW.)

With a druid shapeshifting into a brown bear, the rules said you should give the bear form a set of moves that are like trademarks of that animal.*

That led me to ponder about a brown bear's sense of smell. As Dugan said, noted by scientists as being the best amongst land mammals, far outclassing that of even a wolf. But scent tracking is definitely a trademark of the wolf, whereas it's not something bears are really known for.

Whilst brown bears have very sensitive smell, they don't actively hunt by smell like wolf packs do so it's not as obvious to the observer. They investigate smells over long distances.

And that got me thinking about sensors and computers. A bear has a better olfactory sensor (nose) than a wolf, but its computer (brain) interprets the results differently.

So does shapeshifting into a bear give the druid the bear's sensor but a human computer? No, because then the druid couldn't interpret the data at all.

It seems to me that the intention of shapeshifting, certainly in D&D, is that the shapeshifted druid has a blackbox, a translator, that sits between the bear computer and the human computer, converting the sensory data.

So if the bear can hear human speech within the range of its auditory sensors (ears), that data is converted to human readable data, so the druid-bear can understand it.

Birds have more sensitive hearing than humans, for example, but their brains don't listen out for long meandering sounds like human words. Since the data is translated for the shapeshifted druid's brain, they can understand human speech.

I think the same must apply for a familiar link, otherwise it wouldn't be much use.

And that's why I think normal "animal intelligence" animals are of limited use as scouts, even if you can speak their language. Firstly, they still behave as animals, the master has to give them constant instructions to undertake a trained task. Secondly, they'll report back their own interpretation of the data they pick up.

Are familiar animals still animal intelligence? The D&D 5e rules say they have the same stats as the animal form, so presumably yes.

Putting all that together, I get the sense (sic) that familiars are useful within 100 feet of the master, not very useful beyond that.

Some players might think that's too restricting, but consider your bird familiar circling at 100 feet above your head. That would be like standing at the top of a 100-foot tower. Pretty bloody amazing for scouting!

*Btw, I decided for DW that, based on the idea of trademark moves, a shapeshifted druid must inherit some of the personality/instincts of the animal he's transformed into but that's not as self-evident in D&D. As for druid-bear tracking, DW rules are so vague, I could differentiate between a player wanting to hound the footsteps of a target (a wolf thing), or detect a particular odour from a long range (a bear thing).

Last edited by nemarsde; Sat 16/11/19 10:10 UTC.
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Nep - I have no issue with your ruling, but please keep in mind whisper is not an Owl. She is a Fey Spirit in the shape of an Owl. She has to understand language as Gypsy is able to communicate with her Telepathically, which would require at least a rudimentary understanding of language. For example, she is able to cast a touch spell thru the familiar, but the familiar has to use it's Reaction to deliver the spell. That's a pretty complex concept to pass across to something that has limited intelligence.

Ruling that the spell provides a Telepathic "Universal Translator" that only works between Jaliera and Whisper so that Whisper doesn't understand any spoken language is fine.

But now a new wrinkle. What if another creature tried to communicate with Whisper Telepathically? Are they able to?

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=I= think that would depend on the nature of the 'link'. Is a 'private' link based on the spell involved? If so, I would say no. However, if the 'fey spirit' is inherently able to communicate 'telepathically' ... then it seems to me that any 'telepathic being' could communicate with the 'fey spirit' ... and there for with the caster ... perhaps only indirectly.

But I am not the GM <wink>


MikeD
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I love these kind of questions! grin I think familiar link might be more like possession, you know. I mean, the familiar never disobeys, right? It must appear and disappear on the master's order. Within 100-feet, the master can tune in and take control. Within 100-feet, the master can give it as complex instructions as it they want, can query the familiar and receive sensical replies....

Maybe the familiar is more like a drone or ROV? When directly piloted by the master, they effectively gain human intelligence and understand their master's inputs. At other times they're running on a more instinctual AI, derived from the animal form.

Neptune #982500 Sat 16/11/19 20:23 UTC
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Zeim,
I don't think of telepathic communication the same way as you do. Neal thinks of it a third way. So keep in mind that we have a fundamental belief differences. My understanding is that it does not have to be words. I looked all over the internet until I found the ONE source we can rely on, Jeremy Crawford: Sage Advice


-Nep
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When a player asks me questions about how exactly magical effects work, I always use Clarke's Third Law to figure out what I think's happening.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

So I think, 'How would we explain this effect if it were technology?' and that usually gets me to a result.

It's probably the least creative way of answering such questions, but D&D settings tend to have quite common, open magic, so it sort of fits.

Neptune #982591 Mon 18/11/19 19:12 UTC
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BTW, I'm waiting on players to do something.


-Nep
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