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So the last two episodes "The Last of the Starks" and "The Bells" have been panned widely. I don't see it that way and am wondering how you all feel about them. I happened to think that (aside from a coffee cup blunder) the "Last of the Starks" episode had some curious fluff but otherwise built on the evolving story with Daenerys. Maybe it's people's realization that a character that viewers saw as their hero is really a villain? What do you all think?

I have liked both of them. The Starks episode was too dark, hard to see, but otherwise was great. The one last night was spell binding. You just knew once they killed her friend that she was going to go dark.

The real question is who ends up with the crown.

I liked the first half of the Last of the Starks. The problem that I had was they killed off a dragon very easily, and completely blundered with killing the second one.

Hmm actually my criticism for the last two episodes (and all in all I liked The Bells) was...

1) Killing the dragons became a plot point that didn't have consistency. It felt like the writers said "We need to get her down to one dragon..."
2) The Night King died way too easily, he was the big bad for so long and then poof.
3) Telegraphing of Misandei's death "What do you want to do after...." knew right then she was going to die.
4) The timeline. The fleet sails, and about the same time Arya leaves Winterfell. AFTER the fleet gets to Stormhold, Sansa tells Jaime his sister is about to die. He sets out. Jamie makes it to King's Landing well before Arya.


Ken, I think they have pretty much set it up so Dany won't be the one wearing the crown.

Well I agree that the battle at Winterfell was too dark. I know it adds atmosphere but I was struggling to see who was who. That said it was dramatic 'edge of the seat' stuff most of the time, so I liked it! And I like the way the Night King died. Neat move with that knife! My comment at the end of the episode was 'intense!'

The Bell didn't worry me with regard to Daenerys as I have never been a big fan of hers.. though I liked the dragons of course! But my comment at the end of this episode was 'grim'.

Not sure what result we are going to end up with as Jon doesn't want the throne and I can't see Daenerys taking it now. Maybe Sansa? Though she is not a favourite of mine either. I expect we will have some surprises still.

Lots of conversation on-line that the Prophecies are aligning for it to be Arya.

Some interesting theories about the white horse too

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/t...the-white-horse-mean-got-arya-stark-bran

SPOILER ALERT






















Of course there is no more Iron Throne for anyone to sit on...........

So what did everyone think of the ending?

A little predictable. I was betting between Sansa & Bran, turned out it was both. I guessed it would be Jon who killed Dany, only one who could have gotten close enough, evens for me whether he survived the dragon though.

The only surprise was Arya. I knew she wouldn't stay around, just didn't cast her as an explorer.

Satisfactory tie up I guess.

I was disappointed with Bran getting the throne.

Now they elect the monarch of the 6 kingdoms- of course Bran is the new three eyed raven, and the last three eyed raven lasted a couple thousand years so the next election might be a ways off.

True!

My money was on Tyrion.
They should have had one of us write the last episode. We would have made it a mini-series

My biggest regret in the last season is that so many story-arcs and so much potential just was not used. Loved the show though and looking forward to the new sequel or prequel that comes out!

Well ... that is so that there can be another season ... DUH!! <chuckle>







assuming there is enough 'financial interest' in having it 'out there' <weg>

They have said no spin-offs. Shame. I would have loved to see The Adventures of Arya the Explorer!

Perhaps in the prequel series they will cover what Arya might have found!

The general consensus of our little fan group at work (myself included here) is that this is either an ‘oh shit’ ending because they suddenly realised not enough time was left to finish all the story threads or its been left open for a future film.

The conclusions we reached based on what we saw were

1) Dany is dead but won’t be for long – the dragon carrying off her body aside (there is clear intent there), it’s a well-established principle that dead people in this setting don’t necessarily stay dead if they have a chosen purpose due to either divine and magical reasons. There are at least three characters (2 in the show + one more in the books) who are killed stone dead but come back. Dany will be back as something, not sure what but that’s where the dragon is taking her.

2) Before Varys is arrested, he is clearly sending raven scrolls to parties unknown divulging Jon’s real heritage. Who was receiving these and why? Nothing comes of this its put in too late to mean anything significant unless it’s a calculated last act for that character for future conclusion.

3) Jon is ultimately sent back to the nights watch, an entirely pointless exercise given that there is nothing left to watch for, castle black is now a wildling stronghold and there is a dirty great hole in the wall next to it. Why? Well consider it was King Bran who sent him there who also has the ‘Greensight’, the ability to see both the past and the future. What better way to keep the true heir out of harm’s way than to send him to the back end of the world where he will be very difficult to find when Dany comes back for revenge.

There is too much money still to be made in this franchise not to go for a full film conclusion, the lacklustre ending and the subsequent backlash from both fans and cast alike may be a very clever way to whip up enough froth to guarantee the success of a film.

I hear there is a petition now (seriously?) to have the ending re-written and I understand that even JRR Martin has said the book ending will have 'similaries' to the show ending.

Anyway thats what my work fan group thinks

As of a few days ago, there was 1.5 million on a petition to redo the entire 8th season.

I admit, if I had been Dany I would have visited the Shadowlands before going to Westeros and picked up a few more dragon eggs.

I do like your theories Muddy! That would make for a fun movie.

One small correction. There is no hole in the wall near Castle Black. The Night King breached the wall at Eastwatch by the Sea, hundred of miles away on the coast. Otherwise I also like the theories.

Ah thank you I often have issues with scale in this setting I had assumed all that stuff took place in the same area.

Yeah, easy to assume. I actually saw that fact on the internet somewhere and thinking back on it it was true. If you recall in that episode when the undead Dragon destroyed the wall it also destroyed the Castle behind it. Tormund and others were manning the wall above that Castle and managed to escape, so the hole would be right on top of the Castle, which is not the case in the images of Castle Black in the final episode.

The production probably suffered Sony Spider-man Syndrome, so Season 8 had to be the last and with a strictly limited budget.

With Sony's first Spider-man film trilogy they found that even though the three films made the same ballpark turnover, each kept getting more expensive to make because of the talent taking a bigger and bigger cut. Spider-man 2002 cost $139 million. Spider-man 2007 cost $258 million. To make a fourth would have required too great a financial gamble on an even more massive budget.

The only way round it was to reboot, shed all the talent and start again with fresh faces and new contracts.

The exact same thing happened again with Amazing Spider-man 2012. It cost $230 million. Its 2014 sequel cost $290 million. Both did roughly the same turnover.

I bet after 8 seasons, the wages for Thrones' cast must've been astronomical. HBO probably wouldn't stump up the capital for a Season 9.

Anyone see the follow up 2 hour program about making the last season? It was interesting seeing the locations: Croatia as the blueprint for King's landing, Iceland as the icy wastes north of Winterfell, Dany's scene with dying Joram on a board in front of a green screen in the studio. Lots of interesting stuff in there.