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nem #822402 Tue 04/08/15 19:09 UTC
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Hi everyone! I'm joining the game, picking up Jex but I have a ton of catching up to do so Nem's gonna keep ghosting while I read the war-and-peace type threads. Looks like fun!

Neptune #822404 Tue 04/08/15 19:29 UTC
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Welcome. Have slice and glad to have ya. smile

Pandemonium #822405 Tue 04/08/15 20:01 UTC
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Geezzzz ... they'll let anyone play here <chuckle>

Welcome <g> Didn't get much of a chance ta chat ... how wuz yer GenCon Xperience this year?


MikeD
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Players at the table were great. DM was great. All Access stuff ranged from bleh to crap. Very disappointed in that. I agree with a lot of the on-line comments that people felt ripped off.

Other than the All Access cost vs value issue, I had a great time. Spent time with a good buddy hanging with people with similar enjoyments. Good discussions, good people.


Last edited by Zeim; Tue 04/08/15 20:32 UTC.
Zeim #822422 Tue 04/08/15 21:50 UTC
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I have always thought that All Access was a crap shoot at best. If you get a great DM it is a great weekend. If you get a crap DM it is a crap weekend <sigh> I have always thought that All Access should allow the 'table' of players should be able to 'pick' their DM. Sadly I don't see a realistic way to make that work in practice <sigh>

And as a 'mitigating factor' ... a lot of stuff was 'effed up' because they 'messed' with out lay out at the last minute. We were given less space for more tables <sigh> It seems that WotC has decided to abandon play at cons. You might have noticed that they didn't even have =any= booth space in the dealer's area <sigh>

If ya wanna have a better time ... and can afford it, Winter Fantasy or Origins might be a better choice in the future ... at least until 'they' get a clue <g>


MikeD
MikeD #822428 Tue 04/08/15 22:51 UTC
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Glad to have you join the group, Nep...

Exeter #822438 Tue 04/08/15 23:36 UTC
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Yeah, I had heard some good comments about Winter Fantasy during Gencon.

Part of the issue, Mike, was the mods were way too easy. Our table finished every one early. In the grand finale we killed the big bad guy before he even got to act in the first round. The DM called over a Marshal who had the bad guy reappear, and we killed him again. Not a single pc took damage from him.

In addition there was no feeling of "team" play in the finale like there was in earlier years, with DMs coming to the tables and tossing random encounters at you or changing your mod based on what others had done. The Factions were not really used for anything compared to last year.

And the setting was not up to par compared to prior years. You couldn't hear the announcements (no microphone? really?), it was very noisy and you had trouble hearing the DM. No statues, no castle walls, no roped off area for play.

On top of that, WoTC/BMG established an expectation based on the All Access Pass from 2013 and 2014 that for the $150 cost you would get a considerable amount of "swag" to take home. The games (purchased separately) would had cost $40. Last year the All Access players got $100 worth of books. The year before they got a decent amount of stuff too. SO you could explain the cost.

This year...., nothing. Except for some cardboard "Certifications" for your magic items you could use in Adventure League play. Since the majority of gamers play at home those certifications were worthless to most players.

So of the three areas of All Access Play (games, setting, and swag), the games were average at best, the setting was below par, and the swag was non-existent.

And yes, it was clear WoTC has abandoned supporting their game. Comments on the blogs are that they've completely turned D&D over to Baldman Games and Adventure League. The problem is they are so focused on Adventure League (which represents a small fraction of the D&D universe of players), that they are disenchanting their core audience.

Many players (Nep and I included) are seriously considering playing Pathfinder next year. The difference between the support Pazio gave their game compared to WoTC was like night and day,

Zeim #822451 Wed 05/08/15 00:34 UTC
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Zeim,

That has always been a problem. IMHO it is the thing that led to the downfall of 3.5. If the mods are designed to accommodate the 'power gamers', then they are too deadly for 'the masses'. I they go the other direction, then the serious gamers are left with mods that are too easy <sigh> It is a no win situation.

In the new D&D that is more in the hands of the GMs, but many of us are not quite there yet. Most are used to the old situation where the game is the king, so to speak. Hopefully as the GMs ge more comfortable with the new paradime, things will get better.

The 'team spirit' you missed was present at the table I was playing with. So that may be a failing of the players at your table. I spent most of my time running "D&D for beginners" and there was a lot of 'party support' there. I don't know how they put tables together for AA, but perhaps you & Nep might want to get a group together <shrug>

I concede that there were 'facility problems' <sigh> The 'new' location was cramped and the folks that run all this didn't have a 'heads up' on the changes until after the fact. We were given a lot more tables in a lot less space and it was a surprise <sigh> If you had visited the dealers room, you might have noticed that WotC was not there ... at all <sigh> So many of the 'venue' problems were a 'surprise' to all of us <sigh>

As to the 'issues' with Adventurers League' play ... Some of that is ... reversion to LG and LFR. It is a way for 'them' to control the tendency of players to ... miraculously to have items <sigh> It was what led to the 'cert mania' that was a real problem with LG and to a lesser extent LFR. It is an effort by "TPTB" the deal with 'cheating'. I am not sure that it is worth the effort, but I understand the why they are trying.

I certainly won't make any excuses for the mods. These were some of the worst 'edited' mods I have ever seen. But that is from an editorial point of view. For the mods that I had to run, the 'story' was pretty good. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see most of the other mods, so I don' know about them.

I understand. I am not sure that I agree, though. Part of the problem is that there was not a lot of 'advanced knowledge' on anyone's part that WotC was going to take this tact. Give it a bit of time and lets see how it all sorts out. I know Dave (the 'bald man' that had all this dropped in his lap) and he wants to make play fun for the majority. Things are changing so I am willing to give things a bit of time to see how they 'shake out'.

If you liked the 3rd edition game, Pathfinder is a great way to go. I know that they have been doing well at cons and continue to grow. But I have to say that I like the 'idea' of what 5th ed is going for. I hope that they can get their sh*t together and make it work <g>


MikeD
MikeD #822464 Wed 05/08/15 09:11 UTC
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Intriguing! What were the 13th Age mob up to at GenCon, owt or nowt?

nem #822469 Wed 05/08/15 11:57 UTC
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Glad to be aboard, and yes, it seems your DM will invite anyone to this party wink

As for GenCon, the All-Access bordered on thievery. We paid a price of $150 for the 4 sessions which, if we signed up for them separately, would cost $40. There was nothing that merited the extra $110 we paid. Many players are furious and the boards (GenCon, Baldman, WOTC) are blowing up.

The fact that WOTC abandoned GenCon was a miserable decision. They killed much of the goodwill they earned last year for that. I've contacted WOTC and Hasbro with my complaint.

Don't get me wrong. I had a good time playing. It was fun and our DM and the other players at our table were excellent, but the modules were weak. I thought the story-line was good and had a lot of potential but they really dropped the ball on execution. The interactive was non-interactive. The encounter scaling was completely off.

As Zeim said, none of the evil bad guys in the climactic encounter did any damage to PC's, but interestingly, Lingo, my PC, took 6 points of damage from "friendly fire". He was dominated and his pals slapped him around so that he would get saves. So the party did more damage than the bad guys!

Neptune #822473 Wed 05/08/15 12:39 UTC
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Welcome Neptune! wavy

Gypsy #822481 Wed 05/08/15 13:24 UTC
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Miked - When I say there was no "team spirit", I don't mean at the table. Our table was great. The players were great. The DM was great. However in prior years there was effort given to provide a team atmosphere "across" tables. The Factions were highlighted. In the Epics players who completed their games early were allowed to go to another table to help those teams. DMs dropped by and tossed random encounters at groups based on what was happening at other tables across the way. This was because the concept of the Epic was all the tables were simultaneously involved in the same module. While you were focused on the 6 players at your table, in reality there were over a hundred players "on the field" so to speak doing the same thing. So what they did impacted you and you could help them if you got a minute to take a break by ending your teams' encounter early.

There was none of that this year. The concept was there. They mentioned it was the same setup. But none of the interactivity occurred.

Neil - I did not see 13th Age. It could have been there, and probably was, but I didn't run across it.

Zeim #822488 Wed 05/08/15 13:48 UTC
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Ahhhh ... got it.

I think part of that 'vibe' was because the folks running things, GMs, Marshals and HQ folks, were all frustrated, distracted and the like from scrambling to deal with the debacle that got dumped on them/us with little warning.

Also, I can't help but wonder if 'they' felt the need to streamline (or omit it completely) the interactive part because of the time crunch that had been forced on them ... and so on.

There was also the fact that, as you pointed out, the mod felt a bit 'weak'. The table where I was never seemed particularly challenged so didn't need any help and I didn't hear any of the near by tables having trouble and needing help either <shrug> Last year it was a different story <g> And all the complaints about how hard things were last year =may= have caused them to 'back off' some ... maybe too much <shrug> But since I am not involved in any of that sort of decision making, I am just guessing about most of this.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Winter Fantasy in Jan.


MikeD
MikeD #822490 Wed 05/08/15 14:06 UTC
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Pelgrane Press, who owns 13th Age are a British publisher, so I imagine their presence at GenCon would be very small. Having said that, they said 2015 was their biggest ever GenCon effort.

https://pelgranepress.com/index.php/pelgrane-at-gencon-2015/

(Probably still small, relatively speaking.)

Thanks to Neptune for taking up Khamsin's mantle, and thanks to Khamsin for playing up till now.

HHE's been heavy on characterisation so far, lighter on the action, but the adventure now begins in earnest so we can expect more exciting times ahead!

First up though, 13th Age has a few more features that I'm obliged to show you.

nem #822492 Wed 05/08/15 14:14 UTC
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Jeeze, more reading!

Neptune #822494 Wed 05/08/15 14:27 UTC
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Yeah, we're developing a new game form here, called 'essay gaming'. lol

Neptune #822495 Wed 05/08/15 14:28 UTC
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Ah, did not know who the publisher was so I probably didn't notice their booth.

Zeim #822501 Wed 05/08/15 16:04 UTC
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Sorry to hear that Khamsin had to bow out. I know he was excited to be playing here <sigh>


MikeD
MikeD #822533 Wed 05/08/15 19:58 UTC
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Attack of the RL, MikeD. Happens to all of us. smile I don't think it was anything dreadful, Khamsin was just too busy to continue.

Right. Travel montage time.

In 13th Age, the players create a travel montage. They're supposed to take in turns, but since this is a message game I'll draw cards.

Pandemonium 7 Hearts
Exeter 8 Spades
Gypsy 7 Diamonds
MikeD 9 Spades
Zeim 4 Clubs

OK, so MikeD, you're first.

The party are travelling through a Mediterranean-like pine forest on a fine summer's day. We're talking somewhere very rugged, like the Ardeche.

They're heading uphill first, then down again into the river gorge.

Describe a possible unusual danger the party might encounter on this stage of their journey?

Finally, Gyspy, completely out of the blue, but I just remembered this when writing about genets. Tindarien has a ferret familiar. (Thought you might have forgotten since you haven't mentioned it.)

nem #822539 Wed 05/08/15 20:49 UTC
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The 'travelogue' goes in the HHE-6 thread, right?


MikeD
MikeD #822569 Wed 05/08/15 22:36 UTC
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So do you want us to post in order, or just for the montage? And which goes first, hearts or diamonds? I assume diamonds, but...

Thanks

Pandemonium #822575 Wed 05/08/15 22:52 UTC
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Sorry for the confusion guys.

Each 13th Age travel montage involves two players. You have a montage moment whenever the GM thinks it's suitable.

Right now, we're focusing on Day 1 Morning. So just MikeD and Exeter are up.

We piece the travel montage together here. I drew cards to randomly pick an order (normally you'd just go around the table clockwise, frex). Mike will give us his idea for a danger, then I'll ask Exeter for an idea of how the party overcame it.

I take that, mold it, and present the montage.

If Day 1 Afternoon needed a travel montage, for example, Gypsy and Pandemonium would go, etc.

As it is, it's only a short journey to the Titan's Elbow, so we probably won't have another montage. But I wanted you to see the mechanic.

In HHE6, you don't need to worry about the travel montage, just post as you are doing. smile

Btw, you certainly captured my first impression of the Ardeche with your last post, Mike. I remember waking up on my first morning there and thinking "You lose it here, you're in a world of hurt" (to quote Blain from Predator).

nem #822585 Thu 06/08/15 00:20 UTC
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<heh heh heh> Been there done that ... no, really! Used to do a lot of backpacking so I 'get it' <wink> Never was in the 'real' mountains of the west, but did some hiking in the Appalachians <wink>


MikeD
MikeD #822604 Thu 06/08/15 10:44 UTC
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Aye. It's an unsettling but positive feeling, isn't it, when you realise you're truly in the wilderness.

Anyway, MikeD, give me an idea for an unusual danger the party might encounter that morning.

Rock slide, wild fire, swarms, wild animals, frex, and that's just the obvious.

nem #822622 Thu 06/08/15 12:32 UTC
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Oh sure ... make them all hate me <sigh>


MikeD
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