So the first season of Amazon Prime's WoT series premiered yesterday. I watched episode one and here are some of my thoughts. Of course others may disagree:
First, I generally liked it. The story and film making was good, though not exceptional. It seemed like they used old fashioned costuming for monsters like the Trollocs when so much more could have been done using today's CGI.
My #1 issue is the casting. Rand, Matt, and Perrin seemed fine. However it appeared as if they bent over backwards to try to bring diversity to the casting even when it contradicted the books. Egwene and Nynaeve were not really as they were described in the books and did not seem to fit into Emond's Field, an insular community where very few outsiders have come for thousands of years. Everyone should look very much of the same stock. The world of WoT, as described, was very insular. Countries and communities across the continent would contain all varieties of races, but people could often tell where you came from just by looking at you. People did not travel or relocate very often so communities were very homogenous.
My two biggest complaints in casting were with Moraine and Lan. As I recall from the books Moraine was a small woman, yet they chose to cast Rosamund Pike in the role, who is quite a tall woman. Lan was cast as a lithe Oriental looking man. My image of Lan from the books is of a large, well muscled man. Someone like Manu Bennett (the actor they cast as Allanon in the Shanara Chronicles). You can even see how Moraine and Lan should look from the front cover of the "Eye of the World" book.
Now all that said, the acting was good and the story was good. I'd give it an above average rating after one episode. I definitely plan to watch the rest of it.
If you go to Youtube you can find all sorts of reviews.
I can add my agreement to Zeim's review. And the underlying points he mentions were also noticed by me as I have read this series and loved it and have strong impressions of what i see when I read the descriptions and the characterizations, and how it all plays within the nature of the world and the setting itself.
Overall I enjoyed it. Quite a bit. There were 3 episodes available to watch and the wife and I watched all three. I liked it quite a bit and many scenes were easily recognizable to me. I particularly loved how Shadar Logoth was depicted. It felt very much like what i remember reading. Obviously, for the purposes of of a TV show, there have to be alterations to convert a 700 page book into what i believe will be 8 episodes of about an hour each.
There was one character's beginning in the show that was quite different and set me back a bit. I just had to do Frozen on it and Let It Go! I understand the pathos they were trying to establish. Oh, and aging them up a bit was not a problem for me... but an early scene that brought two characters together in an intimate way changed the awkward love interest dynamic into a more strained friction laden relationship. but when it came that early I was concerned that there would be quite a few more creative liberties and reinterpretations coming... I am pleased that has been minimal after three episodes. It works well enough.
I haven't read the books, so I come at it as a pristine telly watcher.
Personally I thought it was boring, vague and aimless, poorly edited, bad sound levels, uninspired production design and acting that was at times painful. Thank goodness for the salve that is Rosamund Pike!
It was like EastEnders crashed into The Lord of the Rings. Definitely not for me.
Fwiw, having not read the books, the diversity in the village (Two Rivers?) made sense to me. The land has suffered some sort of apocalypse, if I understand correctly, so whoever was in the region at the time would be stuck there. A bit like if we had an apocalypse today, 100 years from now the communities that rose from the ashes would still be quite multi-ethnic since that's their starting point.
I had no problems with the ethnic diversity in characters. In fact the world encompasses that quite well in a regional sense- the continent is very large. I don't generally pay any attention to it as I don't really care. what I really want is to be told a tale in a way that makes me feel as if I am there and I can feel what they are feeling. I do point it out because the two rivers folk were detailed and described as the descendants of a particular people in that area, and their very appearance could identify them as Manetheren from ages old... before the breaking of the world in an age long past... these descendants are insular, isolated, and distrustful of outsiders(for it is in the blood to know betrayal- to stand alone, to rely on only themselves. their tales and songs teach them this)
As to your point about coming at this from never having read the books... if that becomes the consensus among those like yourself, then the show will fail. time will tell.
Good points, PP. And I think I understand what you and Zeim are saying about the village's culture. It's not that it's too diverse, it's that it's not distinct enough.
Regardless of their racial background, you'd expect such a close-knit and isolated village to have a very strong culture. I never got a sense of this from the episode. No sense of folk lore or history in the way that the LOTR film-makers underpinned the Shire, Rohan and Gondor. When we were shown around Hobiton, it seemed like a real place with real people doing real things. Not so with Two Rivers, in my opinion at least.
Neal - Its understandable if you haven't read the books. The apocalypse happened thousands and thousands of years ago, not a hundred or two. And the Two Rivers was part of a lost Kingdom called Manetheren. You'll even hear Rosamund Pike say "The Old Blood runs strongly in the Two Rivers." That is a comment adding to the insular and homogenous nature of the world's population.
it is very understandable that if you haven't read the books the story might not be engaging at first.
I agree with PPs comment about the different starting story of Perrin (married?) and Rand and Egwene (in the books shy teenage puppy love, in the show actual hooking up?)
As also pointed out in several reviews, the political correctness extended to comments about the "Dragon Reborn" being any one of the four Ta'averen and a line in episode one that it could be a man or woman. Jordan's books had firmly established male-female dynamics. Both genders had a specific place and a specific role and none EVER crossed that line.
The Dragon Reborn is always male. If for no other reason than he has access to Saidin (the male half of magic). In WoT males and females each have access to specific types of magic and neither can touch the other's. The Dark One poisoned the male half which drives male magic users insane. That was why the first Dragon broke the world to begin with. A 'female' Dragon is impossible.
Do you think that means they intend to deviate from the books and make the Dragon Reborn female, Zeim, or that they just want to deepen the mystery for viewers who haven't ready the book?
Anyway, I wish the series the best though I won't be watching it. I just hope that Amazon's new Middle-earth series is better overall! (Crazy as it sounds, I have read The Silmarillion twice! )
the dragon was always meant to be male- the male and female halves of the one power work together- are made to be in harmony- the Dragon was the strongest male channeler of that past age- trying not to be spoilery- but one half of the one power was corrupted by the dark one and the world breaks in the dragon's madness- and a lot of time passes- the female half does not possess all their own understanding of this balance anymore and now struggle to keep these male channelers in check- a few are strong enough to rise to considerable power- but the male half is corrupted and it always drives them to madness.
The Dragon Reborn would always be a male because it is about reclaiming the other half of the one power and regaining balance with the female half.
another note- these books do not need to be updated to accomodate PC- the female channelers in this world are incredibly powerful. timeless in appearance and very long lived. they are fearsome badasses that an older empire tried to bring them down and very enarly did, but the cost would ahve been so great both sides that a truce was reached... rules by which the aes sedai live now. the politics of the aes sedai is rich and detailed...the politicsa of the many nations of this current age are also very detailed. The aes sedai maneuvering in the politics of other nations to ensure they are involved really impressed me. so much lore there that there is no reason to need to add to it for gender equality purposes. aes sedai are not to be trifled with... in some areas they are revered and respected. in others, the farther from their sphere of influence, they are feared and reviled because of their connection to the breaking in general. but they are the keepers of the watch over the dark one now for good or for ill.
in terms of the 4 characters and those in their immediate circle- every one of them is important- ta'veren- a strong thread in the tapestry of the world, threads being spun by the wheel of time in the Great Pattern that sensitives like Morraine can see them when she meets them, but they are all strong and all have destinies explored in the books... that she can't tell which of the three young men was going to be the Dragon at first. Egwene and Nynaeve are critically important to the tale- but from the female side of things.
I appreciate the lowdown, guys! Thank you for that.
I'm kind of surprised by my own lack of knowledge of the Wheel of Time. I know of it, who wrote it and finished it and how many books there are in it (which is probably why I never went near it!). But I didn't actually know what it was about until now.
Well despite hearing Neil's opinion on Sunday we have now watched the first 3 episodes and I will definitely be watching the rest! I don't get bothered by small details not matching the books. I try to watch film/TV as a fresh story. I liked the casting and Rosamund Pike is awesome. Stayed basically true to the storyline and totally engaged us both. I have read the first 5 books, Tusk hasn't read any. And yet we both loved it.
My only concern is that it follows the books too closely as I gave up after book 5 as it started to get drawn out and irrelevant, more padding than substance in the story.
I read the whole thing, to the end. All 14 1,000 page books, plus the prequel. Parts of it did slog. He spent too much time on flowery descriptions and had far, far too many plot threads going all at once. Towards the latter half of the series, for example, a 1000 page book had enough room for a single chapter or two to address each plot thread!
I guess the casting bothers me more than you, Gypsy. Rosamund Pike is doing a great job acting the role, Lan is good too, but when both of those actors are SO different from the image the books portray it irks me. For example, LoTR did a great job staying true to the actors matching the books descriptions. It would be like making Frodo a 6 foot tall, burly Scandinavian. It's an effort to get my mind engaged.
Overall I like it, but I can see how those who haven't read the books might not be the target audience they were shooting for, and based on the titles of the remaining episodes in this season it would appear they will be leaping ahead and taking liberties with the timeline in the books.
The cast was a bit jarring but I just figured it was my own perceptions. I've watched the first two episodes and I'm loving it. Yes, Perrin being married made me go huh? And Dragon Reborn being one of the 4?? Yeah, I don't think so.
For the people who haven't read the books, we should really try and not say what's coming even if the title says with Spoilers.
But anyways, maybe I'm a simple guy, and easily entertained and I don't need a lot to like something but I'm loving it. Creeps me out in parts, like the Children of Light (they're really done well) and Shadar Logoth.
Agreed, Nivek. And having Rand and Egwene hooking up in the first episode was like, WTF? But it looks like they're trying to boil the books down to their essentials for the series, after all if it was really true to the books it would have 1 full season per book and go on forever.
Now the titles of the upcoming episodes make it seem like some things will be revealed early and perhaps out of order, but we'll see.
Yeah they have to shorten it. Otherwise books 7-10 would be nothing but hundreds of hours of a blank screen
I saw a preview that they show Moiraine becoming Aes Sedai. So they'll use stuff like that explain more about them, like the different colored ajas and the warder bond.
I don't think they'll get to it in season one, but I really hope they don't cut out the Stone of Tear where Rand gets, and uses Callandor. That was one of my favorite books.
I only read the 1st book. It seems very close to what I remember. Looks good though. Will keep watching. Maybe I'll start reading the books again ... once I get truly settled into my new place
So watched episode 4 last night. Last night's episode was roughly 50% stuff that either never happened in the books or directly contradicts what did. However I am definitely enjoying the show.
So I have decided its not worth complaining anymore (too much ) about the divergence of the show from the book's storyline and try to view it as an alternate history, set in the WoT universe, starting with the same characters but with potentially different events and timelines.
No screen 'adaptation' of a book has been 'true to the book'. Sometimes it because it is not possible or financially reasonable. There =may= be other things ... like all the people involved in the 'movie' feel the need to 'put their stamp' it ... regardless of what it does to the book's story <sigh>
With all the praise, I may actually have to sit down and watch it now <g> Thanks for all the 'reviews'.
I'm still loving it. There is no way, they'd do every scene from the book. Just insanely too long. So they do scenes that convey the information necessary to learn about the world, and learn about the characters. Take the WhiteCloaks for instance. None of that happened, but damn if you don't hate and fear them! Mission accomplished.
Yeah, I agree. There is a lot going on. It really helps to have a solid background. If you have any questions that don't involve spoilers, I'd be happy to answer all I can.
So far I am loving the show a lot. Some things that bug me, and have bugged others... The casting should have been more similar for Perrin, Matt, and Egwene given their backgrounds and Two Rivers being so isolated. I get wanting a diverse cast, but they have opportunity to do that with other characters, like Moiraine, Lan, Nynaeve, Thom... and later on so many more. It's not a huge point for me but it is a little irritating since the area has been rather insular.
Other than that, the whole who exactly can be the Dragon. Unless I missed something in the books, that does irritate me. Again, I get wanting to make things as broad as possible, and to have some mystery about who the Dragon is... I just don't like it. As Phoenix said, the female channelers are bad ass ladies. They don't need that mystery around them. LET THEM SHINE on their own!
What I do like is the pacing of the show, a lot. They keep things going, show new perspectives from other characters... I think keeping that up will definitely be an improvement over some of the books that just got weighted down.
Now that the first season is completely out (and has been for a few weeks), and Season 2 has been greenlit... has anyone's opinions changed, and in what way?
Mina - No change. I like it, and while it is close to the books in "spirit" it separates from the text in many ways that are a bit disconcerting to those who expected to see a close representation of the written series. Still I will watch season 2.
I really enjoyed it. I understand the issues they had to deal with. Big character leaves after episode 6. Covid prevented them from going to certain locations or back to some previous locations. They cut it down from 10 to 8 episodes and they had a ton of lore that had to be disseminated in a way that wouldn't bore people.
The cast wasn't what I expected to see, but I pass that off as my mental bias to what I imagined. I'm good with all of it and so far, I like them all.
Not your mental bias, Niv. They purposely contradicted the imaging (both written and art) of the characters. It is sad, but from the commentary I've seen and read it seems they did it to maintain political correctness. The Producers even mentioned wanting to make sure they added Lesbians into the series. Jordan was very much into traditional gender models and his world consisted of very isolated and homogenous communities. That sort of traditionalism doesn't fly in Hollywood anymore.
He did have a few non-traditional gender roles, like Birgitte, the Archer, and the Maidens of the Spear among the Aiel, but they were looked at as unusual exceptions by the people of the world.
Again the changes being made don't bother me, other than as being unnecessary. The story is excellent on its face and making changes simply to satisfy the whims of activism grates a bit.
I am fine with a more diverse cast/storyline, but it still is a bit annoying that the Two Rivers, which is isolated, was portrayed as a much more cosmopolitan type of place.
But, I admit I was a little sad that they did not visit Caemlyn and we were not introduced to Elayne and Gawyn yet. I was looking forward to that
Agree Mina. Also other storyline changes like why did Matt leave and why did they have Moraine 'stilled'? I am hoping to see reasons for these (perhaps to condense the epic length of the books?) in upcoming seasons.
Ah. Well that is tough. Still would rather have a new actor step in than write him out. He is a critical part of the series, considering he is the one who sounds the Horn of Valere, becomes immune to the One Power, and is the leader of the 'Band of the Hand', so they're going to have to bring him back, or make more changes.
When it comes to casting and story I always think of LoTR here. They stuck almost religiously to casting choices that matched Tolkien's descriptions and stuck as close as possible to the written story in the books. I can count the number of differences between the books and those movies on one hand. That series managed to win all sorts of awards and make all sorts of money without making compromises.
Here's what the producers said about why Rand and Egwene were hooking up in episode one and Perrin was married (when none of that happens in the books): "To be true to the books we'd have had to make Rand and Perrin and the rest all teenagers. We wanted to broaden the audience so we made them older (20s), gave Perrin a wife, and changed the Rand-Egwene relationship to be more mature."
That is what I mean.
Oh, and Mina, I missed Caemlyn too. I also miss that they cut out all of the sword training Rand and Lan go thru. The sword forms and their references during fight scenes were one of the things I really enjoyed in the books. And it becomes critical to the story when Rand fights Isamael in the sky over Falme.
They'll bring in another actor, they just didn't have time to do it now.
Also, I get all the things you say Zeim, but 8 hours. That's what they gave us. Now, could or should they have made it longer, of course. But in 8 hours, I'd cut out Caemlyn and sword training and move things along also.
I guess, I'm just happy they're making this and if they make changes because they think it makes a better show, then I'm all for it. To do the books exactly to the letter would be nothing but a dream and we'd have nothing.
As my family says when we gather in massive numbers for vacation, "Go with the Flow".
I always take umbrage when a Producer or Director thinks they know better than the author and that their changes will 'improve' things. See my comments about LoTR as an example of doing it right.
I like the show, but every decision they made to change things diminished it. I'd have greatly preferred had they kept true to the books. I suppose everyone has a different part of the books (for those who read it) they liked, and if you were a Nynaeve fan you are probably ecstatic as her role has been greatly exaggerated. The producers acknowledged that the books are written mostly from Rand's perspective (especially the first few) and they wanted to spread things out.
If they couldn't finish the first book in 8 hours then add in the stuff they took out and end season 1 on a cliff-hanger, in the middle (perhaps after leaving Caemlyn and coming in sight of Tar Valon), and finish it in season 2. If they actually filmed it all and then post-production decided they had to remove 2 hours of stuff, I'd like to know why.
Again, I like it, but mostly I like it in spite of the decisions they made not because of them.
That seems to always happen with 'movies from books' <sigh> But I =do= get it. The director is taking what 'the story' gave and molds it to fit what (s)he took away from the original story. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it fails badly. Mostly it is somewhere in between <g>
I saw the show without having read the books (I was about 50% through with the first book when I put it down). I enjoyed the show.
There is a comfort in seeing on screen exactly what you've read. I remember the first time I realized that film adaptations were not the same as the book. It was the movie Jaws. I had read the book before seeing the movie. The book was excellent and more about the relationships between characters. The movie was straight on horror. It didn't make the movie bad; it just made it different.
I'm going to read the books soon, starting over with book 1. I'm sure that I'll love it... and the show too.
So watching Season 2 and they've pretty much given up all pretense of following the books. The show now is solidly in the "inspired by the books" realm. Still like it, but have given up on expecting the plot to agree with the published materials.
So my cousin is watching and had asked me to explain bits of season 1. I did. He called after the first episode of season 2, and I was like, I can't help you with this one, sorry.
Well I am still watching but finding it a little harder to follow, probably because of the departure. But maybe not as Tusk has given up on Season 2 and he has NOT read the books!
It is so weird when a TV show or movie adapts a book and thinks "Let's change the story!" It's being adapted because it has a good enough story that it has a fanbase. I understand editing for time, but wholesale changes just because always leaves me flat.
Jim Butcher has stated that after the first TV adaptation if his Dresden books were ever adapted again, he would only agree if he had more input/control on the product. I really wish one of the major providers would pick up his books again. They are such fun. But back to Wheel... I have seen the first two episodes of season 2, and hoping it gets better.
I suspect they did it partly to compress the time. There are 14 books plus a prequel and they're all about 1000+ pages long. Additionally, by the time Jordan got to the 5th or 6th book he had so many plot threads going on simultaneously that in a 1000 page book it seemed like each plot thread got a single chapter devoted to it to advance it. By the time Sanderson took over for the last three books quite a few of those plot threads just vanished.
So I suspect they decided they were not going to get 15+ seasons to try to do 1 book each season and had to squeeze it all in. That meant compressing when things occur as well as having to choose to ignore certain things. So, "inspired by" is the best I can say. Still, its watchable as long as you can get past it not lining up with the books.
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