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MikeD #1022676 Fri 26/11/21 15:29 UTC
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Wolf - Now I had to go look up that, seemingly made up (?) word. smile Can't argue that things have reached a point where everyone now has their own reality. And I know from past discussion on this subject that regardless of anything presented minds won't change, so I am happy to leave it be here.

MikeD #1022680 Fri 26/11/21 16:46 UTC
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Just curious Zeim ... did I miss something?? Aren't =ALL= words 'made up'?? <weg>


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MikeD #1022681 Fri 26/11/21 17:10 UTC
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lol

MikeD #1022682 Fri 26/11/21 19:13 UTC
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What you all say is true but perception is reality and you all know how it's being perceived. As I said, true definitions are meaningless.

And both Zeim and I have kept this debate civil (mostly) for several decades.


-Nep
MikeD #1022686 Fri 26/11/21 20:09 UTC
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There are a lot of ... competing ... issues in this debate (if only it were simple <sigh>)

If normal citizens cannot own firearms (for protection) ... then only the 'bad guys' have them and they know that they can more easily 'attack' any 'home' they want.

While it is a bigger problem for 'businesses', there is some 'validity' there too.

And what about 'security personnel'? Do they get to have guns? Do they keep them when they go home or do they check them in 'at the door' when they leave work??

I wish there was a 'magic fix' that would solve it all. If you know of one, please share!!!


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MikeD #1022911 Wed 01/12/21 16:17 UTC
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And what about 'security personnel'? Do they get to have guns? Do they keep them when they go home or do they check them in 'at the door' when they leave work??


Oh, for one particular industry I can answer this question.

For many years I worked with Bank security folks, designing, well, banks. And in doing so I learned a whole lot of interesting things about actual security practices as opposed to Hollywood and pop culture myths when it comes to security.

Armed guards have, for the most part, vanished from banks.

Why?

1. They did little to prevent bank robberies. If someone really wants to rob a bank they were going to rob a bank. One way or another armed guards aren't going to deter them. Interestingly, this is a truth shared by the Superintendent of Colorado's Jefferson County Public Schools district - all the metal detectors, security gates, armed security folks in the world won't stop anyone from bringing a firearm into a school. If they really want to, they'll figure out a way to do it.

2. Armed guards make a conflict situation more dangerous, not less dangerous. One of the few things we do know about firearms and crime (and what we do and do not know is a completely different question and it's much less than people would like to believe) is that if you introduce guns into a conflict situation the chances of someone getting shot or killed dramatically skyrocket. Well duh. But in a bank, or any other public space, the chances of someone OTHER than the bank robber getting shot are pretty good - or to put it this way, the President of Security for a major Northeast bank told me (paraphrasing here, its been a while) "most insurance companies do not like writing policies for banks with armed guards, those that do are expensive and for most banks a major financial loss which makes no sense when there are not only smarter but better and proven more successful and safer practices to protect your customers."

Believe it or not, most banks are more concerned for their customers than the money in the teller's drawers or vaults.

3. No bank wants the nightmare of a very credible (and probably large) lawsuit against them for putting their customers in danger if a shootout occurs between their security staff and a customer gets hurt.

The proven best practice is to give the guy with the gun whatever they want and get them out of the building and away from their customers as fast and with as little trouble as possible. Let the police (the professionals) and identification (surveillance) catch them somewhere, anywhere else.

Armed guards in banks make little customer safety or financial sense.



Last edited by Wolf; Wed 01/12/21 16:18 UTC.
MikeD #1022916 Wed 01/12/21 16:47 UTC
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Guards with guns goes back to a time when guns =were= actually a deterrent <shrug> It =DID= (and does?) make 'people' feel safer.

Is it as effective as it was? Probably not <sigh> Does it still help?? Probably more than guards with no guns ... or no guards at all. Is there a better solution? I can think of several ... but they would never work ... or be accepted by 'the populace' in general :-/

So we go with what we got <weg>


MikeD
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