The classroom was a somewhat large room that quite possible had at one point been for displaying art or some sort of gallery, however now one wall had been replaced with a full sized monitor and a number of comfortable chairs which had a built in docking station for their pads, which they had been told to take with them. For this class, all of the new arrivals were together. Standing near the front of the room, waiting calmly with her hands folded in front of her, was Grey.

They had been told to arrive at 9:30.

Ben

Freshly showered from his early morning run and meal, Ben stepped into the room at about 9:20, pad in had and nodded to Grey as he found a comfortable seat and relaxed, cracking open the water bottle to rehydrate and wait for the others.

Cadence

Cadence walked with the group of 'new arrival' girls. While Three wasn't a large number, there was still strength in numbers... as if that actually meant anything to Cadence. Anonymity was what she sought in numbers. She was unlikely to find that either, but it wouldn't be for the lack of trying. She found a seat in the middle of the room, trying not to make any statements. School was school, right?

Ben

He looked up as the girls entered, nodding to them as they found seats. Ben gave Cadence a smile.

Lamar

Lamar sauntered in, looking for a desk with a good view, taking a moment to see where everyone was sitting. This was something of a new experience, but the context seemed to be clear enough. The insouciant shapeshifter appeared to be taking his education very seriously, though if that was a default state or a consequence of having been out of the mainstream was another matter.

Grey:

She looked up at the ones arriving early.

"Good morning."

She smiles slightly.

"Just to inform you, your registrations were processed and went through without further issue. Ben, I have some information for you when class is over."

Peri

She walked in with Cadence, and sat near the back of the room, trying very hard to disappear into her chair.

Anne

She accompanied the other girls and took a seat in the middle of the block of chairs. She made sure she was far enough away to avoid accidental touching. She didn't worry about being close to the screen, close to a window, or close to an exit. None of that mattered at the moment.

Cadence

Inwardly, she was relieved to hear that her registration was accepted. As much as she still felt unconvinced she truly deserved this chance, she didn't want it to be taken away from her at this point either. But she was still determined to do everything she could not to touch the power again either.

Ben

He nodded to Ms. Grey at her information and sat back in his seat to listen to her lecture or whatever method she was going to use to teach them. He suspected the information had to do with his request about the family employees and looked forward to it. He wanted to make sure that they were taken care of and could move on.

Grey:

“Good morning. I’m not going to try to pretend this is ‘normal’ class. Obviously I’m not normal, you aren’t normal, and none of this is normal. But what I do want to do here is get a baseline on your views. On how you think things work, and how you think they should work. So my basic first question is this: what do you believe the ethical responsibilities of a powered individual are, and do they differ in any way from those of unpowered individuals?”

Anne

She wasn't going to be the first one to offer any kind of commentary. Not because he mother was a complete and utter nutter, but mostly because she didn't want to be that one kid. Besides she had never really been in school, and so she was only guessing at the protocols involved. She waited and listend and hoped she wouldn't get called on. She glanced down quickly to make sure she was wearing clothes.

Ben

"In what regard do you mean? Inwhat we should do or what we shouldn't do?" he asked.

Cadence

Cadence felt she was the least qualified to offer an opinion on ethics, one way or the other. Despite her heartfelt opinions, she had taken an action, a no win scenario action in her opinion, and people died. She didn't know how many or who, or how they came to be the hostages of her biological mother, Alchemy.

She sat there, within the heart of an awkward quiet... until the one boy, who named himself as Ben at the previous meeting, asked questions o clarify. yeah, she couldn't have done even that in her situation. Instead she kept her eyes on grey and tried to keep a neutral expression.

Lamar

Looking around and seeing largely silent or questioning faces, Lamar shrugged and contributed,

"In terms of the foundation to both, I'm inclined to the golden rule and the wiccan rede. 'Treat others as you would seek to be treated by them', and 'so long as it doesn't harm others, do as you will'. There's a lot to build on that, but that seems reasonably fundamental for a starting point."

Grey:

“Let me expand, Ben. Everyone is capable of effecting the world around them to some degree. Capable of influencing others, and bending at least some of them to your views. Some people, however, have an enhanced capacity. They can influence events and people at a level other people are simply not easily capable of. Does having that enhanced ability carry with it additional responsibilities above and beyond those of people who do not have those capacities?”

She looks at Lamar.

“We are capable of doing unto others on a level that many of them are completely incapable of doing unto us. Were I to wish it, I would be capable of going through life with adoring and for all intents and purposes willing servitors. I am sure you can likewise think of ways, indeed have even seen ways, abilities like yours could be used in a power play over others. That goes for the rest of you as well. What implications does having that ability have on how we should restrict and police it’s use? When you have means as potent as those you - we - possess, it is quite easy to fall into justifying your means by your intended ends.””

Ben

"Well, that is a good question. Lets look at it from the viewpoint of taking powers out of the equation. Take two people opposed to each other on getting a law passed or stopped. Lets say one of them is an innate speaker with charisma and personality that makes people like or admire him. The other person, with an equal passion for their position, just doesn't have that ability. Is kind of cranky and abrasive. Does the personable man have an obligation not to use his charm or smooth talking to get the law passed the way he wants? No, and no one would ever suggest that he does. And no one would pass a law forcing him to use his powers of persuasion to pass laws that were not in his interest. He has free will and as long as he doesn't break the law then it is just too bad for the cranky man that the law is passed against his position."

Lamar

“The abilities or incapabilities of others don’t factor into the equation of the golden rule. We treat others well, because we would wish to be treated well. If I have a bazooka and someone else has a popgun, the defining part of our relationship should not be what we’re packing, but that neither of us should be willing to shoot the other at all, because neither of us would want to get shot ourselves. Likewise the rede, ‘so long as it doesn’t harm others’ being more important than the blanket permission. In your example, you would be harming those you made your thralls, and I would be harming the subjects of my powerplay.”

Anne

She liked the sentiment that was being espoused. But in her experience it was do as you wish. She hadn't. Well, actually she had. She had opposed her mother, and acted against her. In the truest sense of do what you want, she had. The outcome of what she did resulted in death. Her goal had been to stop death. Did that make it ok?

The Hole existed because heroes didn't want to kill the villains. Was incaration better? She honestly didn't know.

When it came right down to it, she acted because she felt she needed to. Was she just a rebellious teenager?

(Moving to another post, we can get in a round but making sure in this round Susan gets a shot)

Grey:

“Interesting theories. Live and let live. Power doesn’t matter. Respect others. Golden rule. Has that been your experience in life so far, or is it something you say to yourself because it sounds like it should be right?”

Ben

"I never said power doesn't matter. Power, in one form or the other, is the grease that makes everything run. Political power, economic power, social power or our own unique brand of power. Some powers can be very beneficial for any number of people and for a lot more than running around in tights and punching people. Silly. My own gravity powers have countless applications that can be useful and profitable. Frankly it is only limited by the imagination of the person." he said, shrugging.

Lamar

“There lies the corollary to the Golden rule, the flip side of the coin that comes up in daily life. How others treat you is how they should expect to be treated. Sometimes your conduct is of necessity on the other half of someone else’s equation.” Responded Lamar.

Anne

"I think you are missing the point." She bursts out suddenly. "We have police forces in the mundane world, and prisons. We have The Hole in our world. We have already met some of the policing agents. I get how people should act, but the reality is, people speed on the freeway because they can. They don't when they get a ticket. Does it make it right to speed and take the additional risk? No, but people do it anyway. Ours is a system based on punishment not necessarily on what people should do.

"Philosophy is wonderful and necessary, but reality is an entirely different beast."

Cadence

This was all very uncomfortable.

There was the back and forth and Grey did her stirring thing... Anne's statement seemed the closest thing to something Cadence could relate to, even if she was taking her ~cousin's~ words out of context.

Reality is an entirely different beast. Until you are faced with something real everything else was just pretend.

Peri

She was silent, not having much to say at least at first. She wasn’t used to actively participating in classes.

Eventually she spoke up, though.

“The school I went to. My old elementary school. Five years ago its roof collapsed because of someone with powers. It’s still not fixed. The kids are still in temporary classrooms on the playground. But when someone with powers sent a meteor to crush part of the mayor’s mansion, repairs started the day after.”

She shrugged.

“If there was a earthquake that made the roof collapse, or which knocked down a wing of the mayor’s mansion, or if it just happened because of the building aging, the result would be the same. So who’s responsible? Nyx for rotting away the roof’s supports, or the city for not rebuilding the school?”

She picked at the skin by her fingernails.

“So the way I see it, power is power is power, if it’s money and influence, or technology, or weapons, or our kind of powers. It doesn’t matter. Just because we were born with it doesn’t mean we’re special or different.”

She had a brief panicked look flash across her face. She’d not meant to say anywhere near that much.

“Or something. I don’t know. Sorry.”

Grey:

“Lets expand things then. So would you all say that, for example, a trained martial artist has no more responsibility to avoid getting in fights knowing he could do more damage than one with n such ability? At some level does having the ability make you more obliged than someone who does not? Does responsibility raise to a level commensurate with ability?”

She pauses a moment.

“In my personal life, because of what I am, I have to answer all sorts of ethical questions which for most people never even come up. I have laws written which apply to me and perhaps three or four other known individuals. There are others among us who have had new additions to the legal code which apply to a vanishingly small group of individuals. What are your thoughts ... on that?”

Cadence

There really wasn't much she wanted to, add. She really didn't understand much of what Lamar said when he spoke, and he was the most frequent responder to Grey. He was obviously very smart and liked the process of debate it seemed. Anne's point seemed valid, if people have power or ability they will use it to benefit themselves, and even if an action is illegal too many would still do it in the belief that necessity or self interest outweighs the fear of getting caught. I need to get home quicker, so speeding is okay. Everyone is doing it. Obviously there were those that simply did evil things because they simply wanted to or couldn't tell right from wrong or both...

Perri's contribution was easier to understand because it was told in a relatable way, not a hypothetical postulation. Power is power is power and any who have it want to keep it, those who don't have power will fear it or resent it, or both.

So what was Cadence's excuse? The Greater Good? She had power and she used it. She made a decision that might truly have been self-interest swaddled in a differing notion. People died. How many? She didn't know. Who were they? She didn't know. And yet the faces her imaginations fed into her nightmares kept them all very real in her psyche. Those faces and screams she actually never heard haunted in a twisted psychological self flagellation that filled any moment where she let her focus slip... like right now, listening to people talk about things that she just didn't understand. In this room she could also add 'mentally challenged' to the list of her short-comings as a human being with powers.

"But we are different Perri," Cadence added in a quiet voice. "That doesn't mean we aren't also the same. Maybe we're an oddity, or a fluke... Or, we are the beginning of a wave of genetic evolution. I don't know. But we ARE different, we have abilities... powers... whatever. But we are also a minority... And some people might have good feelings for people like us. But many others fear us, resent us, despise us, envy us, hate us. And we don't help ourselves as a people by the very same argument that Anne made when people see us using our powers to take advantage of others instead of adding to the collective good of society..."

The words flowed from her now. It took a lot of effort to keep untangling the brainwashing of Alchemy all those months, and even more to be able to 'turn around' and see those things that her biological mother was trying to make her believe as truths for the lies they really were. Lies and hate, and anger. It took everything ounce of willpower she had to stay sane and resist the mental 'lessons' being tortured into her, all the while Nyx was breaking her down physically with the 'training' lessons, thus making it harder to remember Cadence. She never quit trying though, right up to the moment, on that hill overlooking the Black Prison, when she finally saw the truth that came from remembering who she really was. She remembered that she was once a good and kind person. She remembered she was raised by a mother and a father who loved her and taught her right from wrong, and made her accept the consequences for her mistakes, but praised her and reinforced her when she made the right choices.

She didn't talk too much about her father, the man who raised her, the one she considered to be a 'real' father. It was painful. He died from cancer a year ago. But he was a professor at Texas Tech over in Lubbock. He talked to her about a lot things through the years. Things like what Grey was talking about now. He taught Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement classes. He had retired from being a police officer when she was very young. When he died that left only Cadence and her mother to get by, but it was only three months later that Alchemy showed up in her little town of Gun Barrel Texas... and killed the mother she loved. Cadence lost both her parents in a short period of time. It left Cadence weak and vulnerable.

"But, even if we were to represent a higher nobility of human morality as a best intention... Too many of us are willing to speed, or worse, because we can. And... when we make choices like that, terrible things can happen."

This was a recent personal experience for her.

"It's true that all power is power in a universal sense, whether it's wealth and influence to decide who gets preferential treatment, or the ability to destroy a building full of innocents. It's still a form of power. But ours is a new form of Power, one that makes us actually physically different. I figure people can dream of winning a lottery to get money, and buy influence and power. We had thousands of years to let that become ingrained in our cultures so that it becomes universal. It is a 'normal' thing to people. But, we're not normal and those without our Power are being forced to deal with it."

There were strands of Alchemy's 'lessons' woven into her thoughts, and probably always would be now. But Cadence could see them more clearly in her mind now.

"Those who have the more traditional kinds of power are trying to find a way to keep their power by managing ours. They're looking for ways to adapt the rules they have to integrate us. Some of us don't want that and others do. Personally I don't want to be who I am, or what I am... But I don't think that's possible... yet. The people with the power to manage the world as it used to be aren't wrong but I've seen how little they can do to stop people like us. So people like us have to be a part of it... we can't not be human. We're different but we are still human. To think that we're not is a fast road to Hell. I know this personally... Lived it... My biological mother... My aunt... they believed they were meant to rule this world... as gods... They see themselves as more than human, as a new race... One that can take what they want and make others bow before them.

"So, does there need to be rules for us? Yes. Even if we still decide to speed and then society is forced to exercise it's only recourse. Punishment. The rules set the standards of a civilized society. These rules or laws are in place because we learned over thousands of years that without them our society would crash and burn. The world has always had to deal with people who will misuse whatever power they have to get more power, and hold that power.There are people who do bad things because their greed or self-interest tells them it's okay to do so.

"And then there are those that break society's rules and laws because their basic needs to survive are not being met within the confines of society's rules. Maybe it's not their needs but maybe it's their baby... That type of need outweighs the constraints we have ingrained upon us to know the difference between right and wrong. They know it's wrong to break a 'speeding' law, but they feel they have no choice or they are out of options, OR... there perspective is so narrow that they can't see just how close help might really be."

But then she shifted down a little.

"But there are people who are bad, or evil, or whatever philosophy word you want to use. There are people like Alchemy and Nyx who have power and want more power... all the power.They are twisted and can't tell right from wrong and usually don't care. Sociopathic. They are selfish, sometimes narcissistic, and pathological liars. Incapable of love, but very good at faking it. Their own self-interests rule every decision they make.

"Are people with powers responsible for abiding by the rules and laws of society? Yes. Are we responsible for enforcing them? Yes again. Why? Because, above all else, we are human and live in a human world with human rules and laws that govern and protect all of society. Powers are not good or evil. People are. And so, in order to preserve our society the rules must adapt to govern a changing world with changing people, humans like ourselves must help, defend, to protect and serve."

Thank you Dad. I love you and I miss you.

Cadence looked away to wipe a her eyes at the sudden rush of emotions.

Peri

She nodded in agreement with a lot of what Cadence was saying. She had a bit less faith in the rule of law, as she’d witnessed how unequally it was applied. But needing to be part of society, needing to cooperate and be human, that she could relate to.

And she could feel the pain, the emotion beneath Cadence’s words. She, as subtly as she could, drew a tissue out of her pocket and offered it to the other girl.

“It’s not enough just to not do harmful things. The right thing is for people with power to help out people who don’t have power. The strong protect the weak. That’s the entire point of why we even have society. I don’t mean it like the law should say so, I mean morally. Nobody, not even people like us, is strong all of the time. At some point we all need help.”

Ben

He watched with a bit of amused surprise and admiration at the formerly quiet girls suddenly making impassioned arguments. Well thought out arguments which hinted at good intellects behind the hesitancy.

Lamar

He nodded as Cadence and Peri eloquently addressed the questions of morality. There was little to add in that direction, better to allow their light to shine. So, back to a different tack.

"On the question of new laws applying to the few, there are a couple very distinct precedents. Firstly, new technology to which the legal system hasn't caught up with yet. On the cutting edge there, you could well be talking about similar numbers of folk to whom a given piece of new legislation applies, at least until it becomes more commonplace down the line. The second precedent is much, much darker: Nuremberg laws, Jim Crow laws, Traveller laws. Laws the majority uses to control and suppress a minority, even to the extent of elimination in the worst case. Do you feel the legislation pertaining to you and a handful of others is more a fresh drawn map into uncharted legal territory, or an attempt to shackle and control you, denying you the full exercise of your potential within society?"

Grey

“Oh, Lamar, it is no doubt an attempt to shackle and control me. It absolutely is. And it is not absurd that they should wish to do so. Look at the list of people with powers related to what I do. I think you will find most are villains. I am quite unusual in that regard not being one, and it did not come easy. I spent much of my early years locked away from myself, clamped down, walking in an induced fog. I still don’t even remember many things. Eventually I ... woke up and ... forced the issue and came to an arrangement, that was better for all concerned. Someone, early on, thought they had a ‘solution’ to me.”

“You, Lamar - put yourself in the shoes of a normal person faced with “A god am I, kneel.” This is no game, it is existential in many ways. My full potential within society would include Phobos, for example. Delirium. Imperious. I am not a helpless minority, I am in fact an extremely dangerous weapon. And if you think about it, each of you can easily see how that applies to you as well. All of you. Even those of you who have received constant training likely do not understand all of the ramifications of what you can do. Unfortunately for us, in our case we are the weapon rather than possessing it. It is in our blood, in our bone, in our DNA. So how would you, Lamar, propose reigning in that weapon in their shoes? How would you tamp down the very natural fear of the things we do? How would you propose they defend themselves? I can tell you that the current system is not as bad as other solutions you are liable to encounter,”

Lamar

Having been asked a direct question by name, after a brief glance around to see if anyone was taking it as rhetorical, the erudite shapeshifter gave the requested reply.

"Legislation seems moot: The people it impacts either consider themselves morally in the right and self-police, or consider themselves above human law, above mortal law, and ignore it. Their outcome is the same if the law exists or not, the existential threat they pose is removed either temporarily or permanently, imprisonment or death. If there wasn't a law that outcome would be unchanged, existential threats get dealt with one way or another because if they didn't, existence is duly warped. That law isn't to deal with those who wilfully break it, because it has no use in that regard. So, it serves only to get the law-abiding to do what they are already doing, and as such is basically a flex of power by those who desire something, anything they can lord over those who adhere to authority's whim only on their own sufferance."

He shrugged.

"The fear is justified, defence by unpowered humans is untenable on an individual basis and difficult on an organized collective basis, they rely completely and entirely on the good will of those willing to go after existential threats on their behalf and who have the power to do so. Imagine Eidolon having a mental break and turning villainous, for example. Is anyone keeping an eye on him to fend off that possibility?"

Grey

She speaks very mildly, almost blandly, but with frightening intensity. The voice is quite different. Almost like a different person.

“Yes, Lamar, someone is watching the watcher. Someone is watching him very closely.”

The voice that continues is back to the normal calm, even, soft tones of Mary Grey.

“Lamar, there needs to be a structure of laws precisely to give the powered something to follow. Not all will do so, but in the absence of any structure the natural inclination is to make ones own law. It is a matter of basic human psychology. It is a social contract which weaves people who otherwise would set themselves apart into the existing Milieu. It does not, indeed, work on everyone. But it is important. “

Anne

"A contract implies people agree," she offered. "I know my..., I know of powered people who dispute that idea. I am not sure that those without power would agree that there is a social contract either," she offered very softly.

Lamar

He turned as Anne spoke, nodded once her quiet but salient contribution had been made.

"She's right. Governance requires the consent of the governed, and that's especially true where those who would be subject to the imposed social contract have both the power and the inclination to oppose it. This entire country was founded in an act of rebellion against an authority that lacked the capability to enforce its will and its demands, and that's what we effectively have with the social contract that requires conformity of those using their abilities to stay apart. They have no buy-in, they have no say in the contract, there is no mechanism for them to make adjustments even if they did conform, so it boils down to an external imposition that may or may not have enough power behind it to be enforced. The only incentive to comply is the threat of force which they are already willing to contend with, and that's a battle that evidently they would prefer to fight than yield. As Anne alluded to, that's how a fair chunk of the unpowered understand the situation as well."

Ben

He nodded quietly at Lamar's comment. Ben knew his parents felt that way. Not at all happy to comply with anyone trying to govern or control them but more than happy to use the rules to get ahead when convienent.

Grey

“Yes. Those people exist. Quite obviously. So let me turn the question back at you. How would you do it differently? How would your system work?”

Lamar

He pondered the question with a slight frown, and finally spoke,

"You know, I'm not sure that having a single system can work. That whole 'consent of the governed' problem. You're asking 'How can the kingdom of Great Britain maintain control over these rebellious colonies', to draw a comparison. People who will not accept, and do not recognise the legitimacy of, the faction which wants to exercise control over them. People powerful enough to stand in opposition, powerful enough that trying to solve the problem by force just racks up huge costs in blood and treasure and isn't even likely to work. Where war cannot succeed, the options are keep fighting until the total annihilation of one side or the other no matter the cost, or negotiate a peace. The difficulty of negotiating a peace is that the beliefs of those we would have to talk to are utterly unpalatable. That tends to be the case with most peace treaties, you don't make ceasefire agreements with friends, but we're talking about those who see themselves as divine, who see themselves as absolute sovereigns in their own right. Zealotry and pride are tough to deal with. But yeah. The options are total annihilation or bringing them on board in a negotiated peace process in which they are invested and building a system around that accord framework. Anything else is just delaying the problem, denying the problem, or ignoring the problem. Kill all dissent or start a peace process, and we're not the only side making that choice."