Zeim, when you make the PC note that the party looks like this:'
Bern Human Ranger Hunter 6 Jaliera Human Rogue Arcane Trickster 6 Kriv Norixius, Eldritch Knight, Dragonborn fighter 6 Ryssa Human Cleric of Lathander 6 Davroar Human Druid Circle of the Moon 6 {ZeimPC}
For preparation purposes, this adventure will start several months from the end of the Lost Mines of Phandelver. You're all going to gather for the grand reopening of the mines for Highharvestide. Lost mines took place in the spring, in late Mirtul, The Melting. Here's a handy-dandy Calendar. The year is 1491 DR.
So this means we have another level and need to upgrade our sheets. Do you want us to upload our character pis to the Gallery and then our upgraded sheets to follow?
Now probably seems a good a time as any to let you know that I will be missing for much of August - away from 3rd to 27th! I am hoping to have some connectivity but as I am in 5 different locations where I have no idea of connectivity, I cannot make any guarantees.
Your official character sheet will be in Roll20. We can cull some of that down and place in the gallery. So step #1 is to update your PC in Roll20. It's a one-shot effort and after you learn a couple of tricks, it's really easy to do things. I'll put together a how-to video for everyone. The sheet does all the math and it makes playing so easy. If you are the type that is OK discovering things on your own, go right ahead and get started. However, my experience with it tells me that you're better off waiting for my video before you try to do it on your own.
Gypsy, I saw your post about August. I'm actually traveling to Israel for 2 weeks at the end of August so a mid-summer hibernation is not a bad idea (I'm gone from 8/17 - 8/30). That is the coolest story! I hope that when you meet your bio-relatives it's an awesome experience. I can't imagine having blood siblings that I've never met.
I logged into Roll20 but did not do anything other than take a look around and cleared my chat window from previous game. I'm looking forward to this game.
I decided to shell out for the Roll20 module so there'll be a new "game" that you'll be invited to. I have some configuration to do before then. I'll send out official Roll20 invites and also post the link to the game here.
You won't see much, not even your characters. Once you log in, I'll have to link you to your characters which is just a royal pain, but how it works. Once I get you linked, you'll be able to enter your character sheet. Yes, it helps you level ... to a degree. We'll discuss more when the time comes.
Mike, You're linked to Bern now. I'll do my short how-to video tonight. For now, if you feel like fumbling about, go ahead. Hint: Don't add spells to your sheet. There's a super easy way to do that.
Doug B. = Dugan. I was just following Roll20's suggestion to use first name and initial for the display name, but I have now changed it to Dugan to avoid confusing everyone.
That's alright you can call yourself whatever you want. I just wasn't sure!
I didn't get a chance to do my video so I'll give you the quickest tutorial here. The key to doing data entry in the sheet is to click on the pencil. You'll see it just under your PC's name to the right of the gear. That toggles between edit mode and usage mode. Hold off on entering spells on your PC. I have a super easy way to do that using the !shaped script.
If you're eager to try things on your own, you will need to select your PC token by clicking on it. The status "bubbles" should pop open. Now go to the chat box and type in the following: !shaped
That will then present you with a menu. Click on one of the spell search options and find the spell you want to add. Click on it and wait for the magic to happen.
OK. I made my video. I apologize about the poor audio. My built in microphone needs some sensitivity resetting as it picked up every keystroke and mouse slide.
It's really just the very basics. The sheet doesn't do all the things that you would want it to but it's much better than the text sheets that are all different.
Well I have done what I can with the sheet so far. Found it hard going. Your video helped but the sound quality wasn't great and I had to attune my ear to an American accent of course, made it not so easy for me.
Maybe you could take a look & advise?
Two principle areas of concern right now:
1) On the character sheet I started to enter stuff into Attributes & Abilities page - not sure I should have.
2) Got to the video part that deals with spells. You show yourself clicking on the minimise button - but I don't have one. Plus the background with the SKT graphic and all the character pics to the side? Can't seem to get to that.
So I think I am a bit stuck. Also don't seem to be able to add in my proficiences on tools & stealth so my stealth skill is understated. If I click to try to increase it from 7 to 9, it jumps to 10.
I know it is all likely to be me doing the wrong thing - or not doing the right thing - but I am in need of help now!
I might take Zeim up on his suggestion and hold a session. I'll clue you all in. Gypsy, it looks like you were absolutely on the right track with the attributes. I'll try to redo the video with a few blimeys and cherrio's.
We don't all talk like that over here! And I'm from the north! Some of our phrases include:
'it's puthering' - raining hard 'like Piffy on a rock bun' - when you are forced to wait around because someone else hasn't done their bit 'I can't be mithered with all of this' - can't be bothered 'That was dead 'ard' - very difficult 'keks' - trousers 'put wood int 'ole' - shut the door
And I redid the video. I used a headset. I talked slowly. I fine tuned my audio settings. I know that I have a really heavy NY accent - worse than Trumps! We don't really even speak English - that's yours. We speak American. I plan on taking a Duolingo course in English to help with my translation
Also, some things were tweaked in Roll20 to enable me to show you how to add weapons and other stuff easily to your sheet. The video is better and only a few minutes longer.
And I love those phrases! I have no idea how they evolved but they're cool.
Actually I have no idea where they come from either!
Pak & Andy were out with Martin and I one evening and I used the Piffy phrase. They didn't believe I hadn't made it up and Googled it. Amazingly it came up as a Northern expression.
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It seems to be a humorous echo of “sitting like Patience on a monument”. As you say, it refers to a person who is being left out, ignored, or kept hanging about pointlessly. (Americans might say that they are sitting “like a bump on a log”, though this suggests somebody who is stupidly silent rather than one who is being ignored.)
And I will go back and revisit the video. Same link? And I appreciate the efforts you are making on our behalf! Busy weekend coming up though and I have some other stuff on this week. Might be next week before I can get back into it.
Again, no rush on the PC's and if anyone needs help, things are just starting to return to normal at work and at home, so I can assist with PC updates.
I would have pressed to play online on a rare occasion but we have all-too-frequent terrible audio problems with Roll20. The sheet is mostly used for that type of play. I wanted to use it to bring consistency to the sheet format here.
That Roll20 character sheet is surprisingly tricksy. I got some of the way but hit a bit of a roadblock when trying to add the monk's unarmed strike as a weapon. The Compendium only seemed to list it as a proficiency. I expect the unarmed strike is listed as a roll somewhere else on the sheet by default, rather than as a weapon, but didn't find it before being drafted into stompy giant robot action in Titanfall|2.
LOL. Yeah, not that easy. In fact, we have a player that has spent the time to really snaz up our PCs in our home game.
Sometimes samples help. For the curious, I copied over the PCs from my Rise of Tiamat game that I ran for my FTF pals. There are samplings of some really good character sheets there. They may be slow to open because they're 20th level and chock full of godlike awesomeness. Our guru played the monk (Kwai) so you might want to peek at how he set it up.
Lingo - Halfling Rogue Keryon - Dragonborn Paladin Amnon (Kalista) - Tiefling Warlock Marcus - Ranger Pete - Druid John Halifax - Fighter Kwai - Monk
Neptune, I started filling in my character sheet, yet when I tried to run !shaped in the chat bubble nothing appeared for me. I will try again and let you know if it is still a problem.
I have occasionally had issues with the !shaped script too, Dugan. Sometimes when they make updates to the site that script can have problems for a short time.
Dugan, Sometimes it crashes and I need to restart it. Typically this is during the game and I open a separate session just to restart the script. I'll check.
If there's a video for your faction, I recommend that you watch it. While the pages for the Lord's Alliance and the Order of the Gauntlet are disappointing, a few of the blurbs are provocative
Very important: These are someone's unofficial extrapolations so you can use some, none or all of what you want for the factions you belong to. For example, while I thought that the initiation ritual for the Emerald Enclave was kind of cool, it conflicts with other plans that were being made.
Feel free to post or PM me your thoughts.
BTW, I'm starting to get stuff together to start the game soon.
As for your PC's, I think that the list below was what you stated that you planned to do with your down time. It's all etched in mud right now but it's time for the mud to dry:
Jaliera returns to Neverwinter to visit with her mentor.
Davroar planned to accompany Jaliera. (I'm unclear about his further plans. The video above calls for the initiation to be on some island in the Vilhon Reach - about 2000 miles away! It doesn't have to be.)
Ryssa wants to get with Athelor, the cleric who had trained and mentored her in the service of Lathander.
Bern wants to spend some 'quality time' in the Cormanthor Forrest. I have no issue with that initiation happens there.
Kriv needs to report what happened here to the leadership of the Lord's Alliance. That will take place in Waterdeep. Then he wants to check in with his clan at Norixius Keep.
Zeim, you're working on your character and we need to figure out where he'll be.
I'm posting a reference to downtime activities. All PC's will need "alone" time at some point between LMP and SKT, to do class and faction related downtime activities. We'll work through it all but you have 5 months between adventures.
How much time is there? Considering how long it would take to arrange and perform the initiation in the Cormanthor Forest and travel time ... Would there be enough time for Dav to 1.) meet Jal for her trip back ... or 2.) accompany her on her trip up ... or 3.) maybe both?
OK ... just tried the EE link. I gave up when after allowing scripts and content for 30 3rd party sites it =still= wasn't happy and wanted more access. I am currently scrubbing my drive to make sure there isn't any 'crap' on my system!!!
Nep - from the stuff above it sounds like it doesn't matter if we're spread out all over the place? If so, my pc will be either in Silverymoon or justy leaving from there.
It's not much of a reveal but just before the group disburses, you're all going to be invited to the grand reopening of the Wave Echo Cave mines which is scheduled for Highharvestide (figure that's September 30th). We'll start the game at Greengrass festival (figure April 30th). Your downtime (the interlude) will be between then.
Damn, that one isn't much better <sigh> I =HATE= what the internet has become :-/
Sorry to be such a 'bother' ... but just so ya know ... I have used an 'add on' called 'NoScript' ever since I got 'jacked' by a site that had been hacked and a malicious script was added. It is a great add-in that blocks =all= 3rd party sites that are 'called' when I open a page ... unless I manually allow them. FWIW ... I have not been hacked since <vbg> <fingers crossed>
Nep, I just haven't found the time this week to have another crack at Jaliera. FTF all weekend then only days before I go away on holiday. Somehow I doubt I'll make it before I return at the end of Aug, sorry!
I'm already writing the re-intro posts. I might trickle them in since they're PC specific. The first one is going up today.
In the mean time, please finalize any PC updates in Roll20. I want to print off those sheets (into PDF format) and place them here, in DreamLyrics. No, you won't be able to.
Zeim will be joining as a player/DM. I'll be doing the bulk of the running, but when I need a break, he'll take over and I'll play his PC.
I actually posted an IC thread but nobody posted. I think that's because it was very open-ended. The thread, called "Interlude", will be where we play out this summer but there'll be some PMs. Read on...
Gypsy's going on a 3 week "holiday". I'm going to be away on a 2 week "vacation" around the same time. I'm betting that Mike's at Gencon right now and so on. So it's going to be slow to begin with. That's OK. Let's use August to accomplish the following:
1. Roleplay your down-time (time not necessarily together, between adventures) 2. Get your character sheets updated.
When I get back from vacation in early September, we'll wrap up the Interlude. Some notes about downtime. Although we don't need a lengthy interaction (time's of the essence), STK has a measure of intrigue and politics. We will have some PM threads for faction related interactions. With a measure of time in months, we'll do some things in parallel. Davroar and Jaliera do hang out together but Jaliera will need some private time with her mentor and Davroar needs to go with Bern to get initiated. That's fine. I'll create some PM threads for them and they'll have transpired months apart but be played out simultaneously. This is where you learn about some "factional" objectives. Some of these objectives might be conflict with each other. Hence, PM. I'm also going to PM you by the end of this weekend with a thread to start that discussion.
I've worked on some of your character sheets. I don't want anyone to stress about Roll20. I'll take care of Roll20 and create PDF's of the character sheet which will be posted in DreamLyrics. But some of you need to level up to 6th. Dugan and Zeim are there. The rest of you need to make your decisions about stuff. Please just update them in DreamLyrics, in the LMP forum, and I'll get them updated in Roll20. Post a quick response paragraph saying what changes are being made. For instance, Bern gets to choose a 2nd favorite enemy and a 2nd Natural Explorer terrain. He might post a reply that says "At 6th level he gains 9 hps, selects Giants as a favored enemy and Mountains as a favorite terrain." That simple. Some of you may need to add a spell or bump up some other numbers. Some of you might decide to add a complete new class to the mix. That's your call. Plz let me know. I'll get your sheets created and post a link for you to review.
Since Zhuirentel is not with the group, if you want a thread where you and I can post her actions, motivations, and travel adventures to Phandalin you can start one.
The line In my previous post is probably a good choice for Bern: "At 6th level he gains 9 hps, selects Giants as a favored enemy and Mountains as a favorite terrain."
Guys, I've posted PM threads but a few of you have deleted yourselves from the PMs without replying at all. I'm curious, why? I posted an in-game thread too and nobody responded? Am I missing something?
Well ... as far as I know, I didn't delete any PMs. As to the IC thread, I was kinda hoping we could get my character sorted, but ... if there is nothing you think could impact that in the leveling up, I can get right on that <g>
I'll do some work on the character sheets this weekend too. I'm waiting to hear from AJ and Dugan in PM. Zeim, I didn't forget you. I've been preparing for FTF.
Neptune, I have not seen a new PM from you. I was clearing out a bunch of Acro PM's from my recent round as dealer, so I hope I did not accidentally delete it. Let me know if I did.
I think that all the PC's are properly set up now, for the most part in Roll20. Please review the PDF print outs of those in the new thread in the gallery. Let me know of any mistakes, alterations or omissions. I am far from perfect at this sort of stuff.
Some of you have gotten going in PM's. I may not have responded yet but I have some more new threads to start and I do owe responses. I'm going to create them all in PMs so please look for those.
But I'm running out of time before I go on vacation. I'll use some of my flight time to work offline on what remains of those PM threads to start.
My trip is 14 days to Israel with a side trip to Petra in Jordan. I hear it's really hot (105F/42C) in Eilat. YIKES! This is a sight-see-until-we-drop vacation, and involves a lot of physical activity. (Yes, I'll drink lots of water, wear a hat, stay in the shade, take it easy and all that - I promise). What it means is that I may post or may be too exhausted to post.
My only question at first glance is about Kriv. He is listed with an alignment of LE, but his Draconic Ancestry is listed as Gold Dragon? Wouldn't Red Dragon be a better fit? It gives the exact same effect on abilities and powers as Gold Dragon. Just wondering.
Another thing for all of you to do is to consider down-time activities. Each of these takes time and money. After taking a 5 month game-time hiatus, we'll be doing some math on living expenses. That should dry up some of your funds. Consider these:
Craft a non-magical item
Practice a profession
Recuperate
Research
Training (Language, tools)
Buy magic item
Carouse
Craft magic item
Commit crime
Gamble
Pit Fighting
Relax
Religious service
Sell a magic item
Scribe a spell scroll
Something else ... lets discuss
Some of these are in the Player's Handbook. Some are in the DMG. Some are my own. Let me know what you're interested in doing.
Just to keep a record of what I have been thinking: Practice a Profession (as in work in the forest) ... Religious Service (not sure if working for the EE counts for that, but I hope so <g>)
My only question at first glance is about Kriv. He is listed with an alignment of LE, but his Draconic Ancestry is listed as Gold Dragon? Wouldn't Red Dragon be a better fit? It gives the exact same effect on abilities and powers as Gold Dragon. Just wondering.
Full dragons are colour coded for your convenience. Dragonborn are not. Anyone making a presumption about Kriv based on the colour of his scales rather than the content of his character, caveat emptor.
Ironically, both the normally-LG Gold Dragon and the normally-CE Red Dragon are equidistant from the LE noble scion on the alignment grid in any case.
Downtime activities
Kriv would definitely lean towards research, training, and crafting magic items. Possibly a profession as a scholar or historian. Big on self-improvement, not overly religious, disdainful of unlawful pursuits or laziness. Enchanting his maul or crafting a magical one would be a priority.
Character sheet omissions
I'm not seeing Kriv's longbow or his dungeoneering gear, nor his noble accoutrements and accessories, or his trinket spider. Also, do we need the full list of fighting styles as opposed to just Great Weapon Fighting?
As for downtime activities, all require time and money. "Research" is in the PHB and shared as part of the SRD:
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RESEARCHING The time between adventures is a great chance to perform research, gaining insight into mysteries that have unfurled over the course of the campaign.
Research can include poring over dusty tomes and crumbling scrolls in a library or buying drinks for the locals to pry rumors and gossip from their lips.
When you begin your research, the DM determines whether the information is available, how many days of downtime it will take to find it, and whether there are any restrictions on your research (such as needing to seek out a specific individual, tome. or location). The DM might also require you to make one or more ability checks. such as an Intelligence (Investigation) check to find clues pointing toward the information you seek or a Charisma (Persuasion) check to secure someone's aid. Once those conditions are met, you learn the information if it is available.
For each day of research. you must spend 1 gp to cover your expenses. This cost is in addition to your normal lifestyle expenses (as discussed in chapter 5).
Dugan asked me about language. That requires 250 days and 1 gp per day. I offered a non-binary solution, learning a language well enough to understand and communicate "some". Meaning with 100 days of training, there's a 40% chance of success in understanding or being understood. Failure means the evil DM gets to have fun with misunderstandings
I've always thought that there's more of a difference between chaos and law than good and evil. Good is a matter of perspective. Your enemy is always evil. For instance, is slavery evil? Way back when, I started a game called "Black-White-Gray" where there was a Good camp, a Neutral Camp and an Evil camp. Players were to join one of the three. Some of you signed up for that game. As we were setting up the game, a player that opted to be in the "Good" camp wanted to own slaves. In my opinion that was "evil", but that was my opinion.
Mike, To answer your question, yes, I do. Here it is:
Build a stronghold - Anyone want a castle or manor? (DMG)
Craft a non-magical item (PHB)
Practice a profession - earn some gold (PHB)
Recuperate - if you were ill or wounded (PHB)
Research - Dig deep into scrolls of lore (PHB)
Training - Learn a language or how to use a set of tools (PHB)
Buy magic item - spend your gold (homebrew)
Carouse - Have fun, meet people. There are consequences.(DMG)
Commit crime - Easy gold ... unless you get caught. (homebrew)
Gamble - Easy come, easy go? (homebrew)
Pit Fighting - Earn some gold, get hurt (homebrew)
Running a business - Some make it, some fail (DMG)
Sowing Rumors - sway public opinion, make someone look good or bad (DMG)
Training to go up levels - This is mandatory 4 times in your career. (DMG/Homebrew)
Relax - Chillaxing (homebrew)
Religious service - Gain the favor of a church (homebrew)
Sell a magic item - find someone to take it off your hands (DMG)
Craft magic item - Expensive and time consuming (DMG)
Gaining Renown - Make a name for yourself within your faction (DMG)
Scribe a spell scroll Expensive and time consuming (homebrew)
Something else ... lets discuss
I'm going to work with the "official" stuff in the PHB and DMG (which you all have access to) and some homebrew options, including a tempering of the details (as outlined above). Also, I'm using a nice Homebrew Downtime Activities publication for inspiration but there's stuff that would be tweaked.
Dugan, take note. There are some more items here than what I posted for you.
Each are different. The "links" for the DMG and PHB are in Roll20 for use in our game.
You'll note that the homebrew document changes some of the details. You have 5 months. "Training to level up" is mandatory, as stated above and before. You are training for levels 6-10 now.
Crafting a +1 maul seems doable depending on funds and seems in character for Kriv, being a practical development that hones his skills, tests his mastery of the Art and improves his effectiveness. Could tie neatly into Research into the Forge of Spells as well. Adding in Training, then top up with money-positive Practicing a Profession, in the employ of either the LA or Norixius Keep, should round out the time.
Just a quick wave from Israel. As I suspected, the Internet here is terrific but we've got close to zero down-time. As Zeim alluded to in the *** Members Availability *** thread, I am famous for the insane itineraries that I put together. My cousin here saw the itinerary and used that exact word "insane" and also said "impossible" when he saw it. We logged apx. 50,000 steps in 3 days in 95F/35C heat. My posting rate is as slow as I suspected it would be.
Hi Nep. You're not moving as fast as I thought you would, though you did say the game would only just have started when I return in Dec. Is it OK for me to work on a player character here now? I figure you might not actually have room in the party when Dec rolls around, but if you do at least you'll know what I'm intending to join with.
I guess that I didn't articulate it well enough. I knew there would be a summer slowdown. And although you can't see it, there has been a bit of posting but all in PMs. I've used the summer for that. Some players are owed responses in PMs and some have yet to even be engaged there.
All that being said, the answer is yes. I'll start a PM thread for the two of us to work things out because there should be purpose to the PC. I'm very fine with taking it very slowly.
Yeah, I thought you might be storming ahead by now so didn't want to be extra baggage. But I figure if I get something in the works now, the quicker I'll be able to join when the time comes. Thanks Nep.
While it may seem that nothing's going on, lots of stuff is. I kinda wish that there was a possibility of having restricted threads within a forum, like PM threads, to keep all of the "private" stuff associated and within the game. If there is, I don't know about it. There is movement in the PM threads so if I've not responded, I will soon.
Also, as you can see, Neal is creating a new PC for the game. I'm assuming that Pandemonium will continue to be MIA.
My assessment of where we are in the PM threads make me think that we're about 2 or so weeks away from posting a more in-game thread. All PCs will be coming into the game with a mission of sort. If you've been given that mission, hold tight. It means that I'm pretty much done with your PM threads.
Only option I know of is to have individual public threads and simply ask everyone not to read other people's threads if you don't want them to know what is happening there. An honor system.
Another update. Neal is joining the party bringing the number of PCs to 7 which is a good number. He's playing a Triton Paladin, having retired Chandan. I'm working with him to figure out where he enters from but we're not going to wait for him.
I'm on another mini-vacation but I'm thinking that we're a day or two from the official in-character launch of the game.
That looks awesome! Let's go with this for now but you've whetted my appetite
BTW, if you haven't noticed the main thread post, the game has started. I'm continuing with several of you in PM still but you should all have enough to start playing in the forum.
Well, I =had= been waiting for the PM thread to finish ... not wanting to prejudice what was happening there. But I will go take a look now ... but only since you asked so nicely <weg>
There is a terrible risk of metagaming. It'll be important to play as if your PCs don't know as much as you know. I certainly waffled about even playing out the factions but factions provide a real opportunity to build character depth.
What do your PC's know?
Not much really yet. Some factions are bold and open. The Lord's Alliance and the Order of the Gauntlet are pretty open about who their agents are. The other factions are closed about who they are. So Jaliera, Davroar, Bern and Ryssa's affiliations are secret.
There's conflict and competition between some of the factions too. What is in the interest of one faction may not in the interest of the other. That's why we went PM to start.
And as far as citizens of Phandelver, they have NO clue about each other's affiliations.
Therefore, Exeter, please amend your latest post. I should have made this clearer from the start. Sorry.
Nep - In reference to some of the historical events Zhu mentioned in the current thread, what year is it now? Note: The Spellplague occurred in 1385 and was an earth shattering event. Every pc (perhaps not every player ) would know what it was.
All, Replies were too quick for me to chime in but I'll do it now. In this world, not knowing about the Spellplague is like not knowing about World War II five years after it concluded. The event was cataclysmic. All the rest of the information that Zhu provided about herself might be subject to exposure so there's that. Remember that there's a roll for pretty much everything. While the player may not know something, the character might. Even untrained, a "history" check is applicable. Jaliera, who is proficient in Arcana, probably knows a lot about Mythal's and Feywild too. How much is know depends on the rolls. That goes for all the things mentioned in Zeim's post.
And as for the current year, it's 1490. See the Calendar in SKT: Lore.
Zeim, I moved your post here, to OOC, where it belongs....
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(OOC - AJ - Based on Nep's answer I think you need to make a History roll).
All - the Spellplague was an event from roughly 100 years back where the Goddess of Magic, Mystra, was assassinated by two other Gods, Shar and Cyric. When that happened the 'Weave', i.e. the things that ties magic together, was broken and no Wizard spells functioned at all.
The Spellplague began a 10 year period known as the 'Time of Troubles', during the this time Wild Magic storms were frequent and devastating. Powerful earthquakes and Wild Magic caused entire lands to vanish or be created, countries were decimated. Magical Mythals (permanent and powerful Elven magical artifacts) were destroyed. It was cataclysmic.
The Time of Troubles ended with the Second Sundering, where a new Goddess of Magic ascended and established order. The Goddess of Magic is always called Mystra. The current Mystra is the third of her name.
I have to check some of this stuff, but I think the Times of Trouble were before the Spellplague (D&D 2nd Ed). I'll post a link to a better history page to help put this all in perspective.
There's NO need to roll history for Spellplague. As I said, it is very common knowledge. A roll would be needed for something more specific.
Ass for the history, there some "fuzzy" history each time they created a new version. D&D 4E and D&D 5E especially have histories that don't perfectly align.
Yeah, Zeim ... and I can't run some win 7 apps on win 10 ... so what's the point? <shrug> ... except that I an not moving to 10 <weg>
Yeah it =would= be nice if you could ... apply a few 'tweaks' and continue on, but name me one other ... 'endeavor' where they 'guarantee' migration with out 'adaptation' ... or something like that <chuckle>
With regards making history and arcana rolls, it seems pertinent at this juncture to point out that this forum does not currently have an active, player-accessible dice roller.
Jaliera is a bit of a conundrum. Brought up in a sheltered environment with her parents until she was 13, taken in and virtually a prisoner for the next year or two.. then taken in and trained by her mentor who is a sage. Her learning and experience has only really happened in the last 12 month and she is only 16. There will be gaps, maybe even wide enough for huge events to fall into but I am happy to be advised or to roll or just to use the ignorance as a chance for dialogue!
You design a 'history' which offers 'opportunities' ... but also 'frustrations' ... at the GM's discretion. But isn't that how it works in life ... with out the GM, of course?? <chuckle>
Sorry guys. Last week was a busy week. I have a lot of non DL-stuff that needed/still needs attention prior to my next post. Hopefully I'll get to it in the next day or two.
We are all feeling it Nep. I feel I have a responsibility to everyone here but I can't find it in my heart to continue with everything right now. We all need some grieving time. I miss him.
Yes. We will continue onward after a period of mourning. Neil will be coming back so we are not short a player.
All sorts of things come into my mind. This last post of mine in particular...
"A copper to the Lady returns tenfold in gold," she began, using a common prayer to Tymora to begin. "Tharden's fortune will now pass on to his brothers..." Her prayer went on for a bit and then Luminmorn said his prayer which began with "From death, life for there is always another dawn..." and his prayer also went on for a few solemn moments before turning to Ryssa to say her prayers. All the while, the Rockseeker brothers knelt by their brother's tomb, with their foreheads resting on the stone slab that covered him."
It's like I'm in that cavern now, needing those same solemn thoughts.
I decided to share this post from our PM's between LMP and SKT with you. His last sentence is so fitting... Ryssa
The glory of Lathander suffused the temple and gave Ryssa Noman a feeling of warmth and rectitude to be inside among her fellow Dawnbringers.
She smiled warmly at the sight of her mentor and moved close to the Priest, paused and kissed the large sunburst embossed on his holy ring of the Morninglord.
"Father Athelor," she murmured as she got to her feet. "It is so good to once again be in your presence."
Without conscious volition she reached up and touched the large scar which disfigured her left cheek. The elderly priest there in front of her had saved her from her attackers and set her upon the path to become a scion of Lathander.
"I have been - most recently - in the company of heroes at Phandelver where we had been hired to find and save the brother of a dwarf who had been hidden there in the Lost Mines."
Ryssa shook her head slowly and smiled a wan smile.
"I met friends, lost some of them and then found others while I did my best to advance in the service of our Lord. All the time, I did my best to follow your guidance and gain the approval of the Morninglord."
I have sooo many game/social memories of Ex. We have played, gamed, conversed, chatted almost every day for 25 years, on CompuServe then here. Still can't believe he is gone.
I know that Exeter would not have wanted this game to stop because of him. We will play on and think of him as we do.
Ryssa was an important healer for the party but Davroar is one and Neal, when he joins, is playing a paladin so that is covered. I do have to rethink a few things because I was going to lean on Ryssa for the important hooks into the adventure. We still can move forward. I will.
Thank you thank you! I was expecting to hand back the extra duties I've been doing for maternity cover in December, but now it's moved to February if the lady ever returns at all. (Heck, I can understand wanting to spend time with your baby. What's the point in having it otherwise?) So yes, I remain busier than I'd like but c'est la vie. Can't all have MikeD's lifestyle.
I'm not playing Chandan btw. I felt like I'd told his story for the most part, so I'm joining you with a triton paladin. What can I say, I enjoyed the Aquaman movie (and its sub-1980 Flash Gordon vibe)!
The "other" new PC, Zhu did. I'll work with you so that we're all on an even playing field once the party meets you. I just need them to post so that I can move matters forward.
<heh heh heh> All ya have ta do Neil is 'live long enough' <chuckle> If not for my friends and games here ... I might have 'quit' sooner rather than later <wink>
Other than that ... =damn= ... Sounds like you are having a lot of 'crap' this week! But it =does= sound like it could be worth all the effort ... if it all works out! <fingers crossed> Otherwise, it sounds like 'mom' is the one with the problem!!
About Davroar, in bear form, picking up scents. D&D is pretty comprehensive. It's shocking how the authors thought of almost everything. Let's start with the rules verbatim...
Quote
TRACKING Adventurers sometimes choose their path by following the tracks of other creatures-or other creatures might track the adventurers! To track, one or more creatures must succeed on a Wisdom (Survival) check. You might require trackers to make a new check in any of the following circumstances: • They stop tracking and resume after finishing a short or long rest. The trail crosses an obstacle, such as a river, that shows no tracks. • The weather conditions or terrain changes in a way that makes tracking harder.
The DC for the check depends on how well the ground shows signs of a creature's passage. No roll is necessary in situations where the tracks are obvious. For example, no check is needed to track an army advancing along a muddy road. Spotting tracks on a bare stone floor is more challenging, unless the creature being tracked leaves a distinct trail. Additionally, the passage of time often makes tracks harder to follow. In a situation where there is no trail to follow, you can rule that tracking is impossible.
The Tracking DCs table offers guidelines for setting the DC or, if you prefer, you can choose a DC based on your assessment of the difficulty. You can also grant advantage on the check if there's more than one set of tracks to follow, or disadvantage if the trail being followed passes through a well-trafficked area.
On a failed check, the character loses the trail but can attempt to find it again by making a careful search of the area. It takes 10 minutes to find a trail in a confined area such as a dungeon, or 1 hour outdoors.
TRACKING DCs
Code
Ground Surface DC
Soft surface such as snow 10
Dirt or grass 15
Bare stone 20
Each day since the creature passed +5
Creature left a trail such as blood -5
In the case of Davroar trying to establish a baseline scent, we'll say that the "Creature left a trail such as blood" (scent). Since footprints aren't so much an issue and you're just trying to discern one scent from another, we're going to start with a DC 15. But it's been almost a full tenday, so the scent has started to wear off. But few people have traversed this location and I believe this is doable but tough. Having read up on bloodhounds I've decided that the "each day since the creature has passed" in this case to be less of an impact. Instead of +5 I'm going to use +1 and we'll say it's 7 days (since in the thread I said "last week") The base DC I'm using 15. and with all the adjustments, the DC=22 but Davoar has advantage.
A question about Jaliera's Familiar, Whisper. Since Whisper is not actually an Owl, but rather a Fey spirit in the form of an Owl, does it understand what others in the party are saying when they speak? Jaliera can communicate with it telepathically, but can she also speak to it and have it understand her? Just wondering whether it can understand speech, including other's speech.
So, for example, Jaliera can see and hear thru it's eyes and ears if it is within 100 feet of her, but lets say she sends it ahead to scout and while it is a mile or so away it encounters a group of people. If it sits and listens to them could it come back to Jaliera and tell her what they said?
I would say no. It circumvents the limits that the 100 feet distance is all about. And if we're talking about an owl, what language does it speak? Even a fey owl?
If it is a few spirit in the form of an owl, I would say that it at least understands 'fey'. If there is a direct 'mental' connection between the two, I would say that thoughts is thoughts. But that is just me <weg>
LOL. I would say that there's a chance it speaks Fey "owl" language, not the same language that a fairy speaks. We'll stick with the ruling that it can only take telepathic commands from Jaliera and let her see and hear through it's eyes and ears.
I read that discussion thread, Nep, and the thing most of the comments miss is that the familiar is not an animal. In the very first message they mention that it is a spirit (celestial, fey or other), but then they continue on talking about the limitations of an actual animal, such as a Raven being able to mimic speech but not talk yet it being very intelligent.
That misses the point entirely. A Familiar is NOT an animal. It is a completely different creature who has simply taken on a common form. Discussing whether a normal Raven is intelligent or can speak is meaningless. It is what it can understand and then communicate telepathically to its Wizard.
For example, if Davroar changed into a Bear he would lose the ability to speak because a Bear does not have the physically complex vocal chords required to do more than growl. However, if he was standing among the party he does not lose the ability to understand what others are saying when they speak simply because he is in Bear form. If he could communicate telepathically there would be no reason people could not speak to him in Common and he replied telepathically.
That is what I am wondering whether a Familiar could do.
If it does not understand common, and there is a magical "Universal Translator" that allows Jaliera to communicate with it telepathically, even though they don't speak a common language, then fine. But the fact it "looks" like an Owl means very little.
Since it can understand Jaliera's telepathic communication it is, by definition, intelligent enough to understand communication and meaning. The question really (to me) simply comes down to a language thing.
As a different example, if Jaliera were to cast the Tongues spell on the familiar it should be able to talk to anyone (the spell description pretty clearly states it works on any creature), which supports the idea that it may be nothing more than a language thing.
(OOC - BTW guys, this is the kind of discussion that Nep and my FTF group could argue over during a game session for hours.)
OK ... go ahead and dismiss what I suggested above. But then that begs the question ... what is the point of a familiar that cannot 'converse' with it's 'partner'???
First, I didn't dismiss it. I said that Whisper can speak fey owl, whatever that is.
Second, I guess that you didn't carefully read the "ask". Jaliera communicates with Whisper telepathically within 100 feet. Zeim was trying to get Whisper to do scouting over a much greater distance. That's why I nixed the request.
So yes. Jaliera can and has often communicated with her familiar.
Actually no. I was simply trying to get an answer to whether a Familiar can understand speech.
Lets make the example simple. The party is sitting around a campfire and talking. Does Whisper understand anything that anyone is saying, including Jaliera? Or can it only understand when Jaliera communicates telepathically with it?
As Zeim said, these discussions could consume hours during our FTF game sessions
Sometimes I say no and then sleep on things and change my mind. So, I took some quiet time and did some more research and did some thinking. This time I further convinced myself to stick to my original decision. You may or may not agree, and that's OK. Sometimes these things go in the other direction. My findings are worth sharing.
First, and most important, allowing it would be very unbalancing. if I said "yes" the Find Familiar spell, which is a 1st level spell, would be more powerful than a 4th level spell. Consider Arcane Eye, a 4th level spell that provides visual reconnaissance for up to 1 hour, moving at best at 30 feet per round. It has a set duration. It has an effective range limit. It only provides a single sense - vision. If Whisper could scout for miles and eaves drop for unlimited time and communicate what she heard, is that proper 1st to 4th level balance? It's already an insanely unbalanced power because it gives Jaliera telepathy with a sentient entity. Telepathy is an 8th level spell!
Second, the spell is pretty specific about everything it allows. If they meant for that to be a power, it would have stated so. BTW, that picture of Bran Stark the Three-Eyed Raven is pretty dead-on what the communication would look like. Who didn't see Game of Thrones? I don't think that I could find a better depiction.
Third, and perhaps it's just icing on the cake for me, owls don't speak or understand a language. Note that the Monster Manual will state that for creatures in their listing. The owl is just an owl. Whisper is as intelligent as a real owl is and doesn't have abilities beyond that of that aside from the specific items listed. Jaliera can convey a desire for her to fly this way or that, to land here or there, to fetch some small item, etc. She can even cast a touch spell through her. But while the owl might receive and obey a command or suggestion, she is not more intelligent than the regular animal.
And not for nothing, I consider Whisper to be an integral character in this game. She even has a token on Roll20!
When I was running Dungeon World, I found there was no definition as to what process druid shapeshifting is in the fiction, or what familiars are, etc., in keeping with that game's style of play. (You make up such things as befit your game in DW.)
With a druid shapeshifting into a brown bear, the rules said you should give the bear form a set of moves that are like trademarks of that animal.*
That led me to ponder about a brown bear's sense of smell. As Dugan said, noted by scientists as being the best amongst land mammals, far outclassing that of even a wolf. But scent tracking is definitely a trademark of the wolf, whereas it's not something bears are really known for.
Whilst brown bears have very sensitive smell, they don't actively hunt by smell like wolf packs do so it's not as obvious to the observer. They investigate smells over long distances.
And that got me thinking about sensors and computers. A bear has a better olfactory sensor (nose) than a wolf, but its computer (brain) interprets the results differently.
So does shapeshifting into a bear give the druid the bear's sensor but a human computer? No, because then the druid couldn't interpret the data at all.
It seems to me that the intention of shapeshifting, certainly in D&D, is that the shapeshifted druid has a blackbox, a translator, that sits between the bear computer and the human computer, converting the sensory data.
So if the bear can hear human speech within the range of its auditory sensors (ears), that data is converted to human readable data, so the druid-bear can understand it.
Birds have more sensitive hearing than humans, for example, but their brains don't listen out for long meandering sounds like human words. Since the data is translated for the shapeshifted druid's brain, they can understand human speech.
I think the same must apply for a familiar link, otherwise it wouldn't be much use.
And that's why I think normal "animal intelligence" animals are of limited use as scouts, even if you can speak their language. Firstly, they still behave as animals, the master has to give them constant instructions to undertake a trained task. Secondly, they'll report back their own interpretation of the data they pick up.
Are familiar animals still animal intelligence? The D&D 5e rules say they have the same stats as the animal form, so presumably yes.
Putting all that together, I get the sense (sic) that familiars are useful within 100 feet of the master, not very useful beyond that.
Some players might think that's too restricting, but consider your bird familiar circling at 100 feet above your head. That would be like standing at the top of a 100-foot tower. Pretty bloody amazing for scouting!
*Btw, I decided for DW that, based on the idea of trademark moves, a shapeshifted druid must inherit some of the personality/instincts of the animal he's transformed into but that's not as self-evident in D&D. As for druid-bear tracking, DW rules are so vague, I could differentiate between a player wanting to hound the footsteps of a target (a wolf thing), or detect a particular odour from a long range (a bear thing).
Nep - I have no issue with your ruling, but please keep in mind whisper is not an Owl. She is a Fey Spirit in the shape of an Owl. She has to understand language as Gypsy is able to communicate with her Telepathically, which would require at least a rudimentary understanding of language. For example, she is able to cast a touch spell thru the familiar, but the familiar has to use it's Reaction to deliver the spell. That's a pretty complex concept to pass across to something that has limited intelligence.
Ruling that the spell provides a Telepathic "Universal Translator" that only works between Jaliera and Whisper so that Whisper doesn't understand any spoken language is fine.
But now a new wrinkle. What if another creature tried to communicate with Whisper Telepathically? Are they able to?
=I= think that would depend on the nature of the 'link'. Is a 'private' link based on the spell involved? If so, I would say no. However, if the 'fey spirit' is inherently able to communicate 'telepathically' ... then it seems to me that any 'telepathic being' could communicate with the 'fey spirit' ... and there for with the caster ... perhaps only indirectly.
I love these kind of questions! I think familiar link might be more like possession, you know. I mean, the familiar never disobeys, right? It must appear and disappear on the master's order. Within 100-feet, the master can tune in and take control. Within 100-feet, the master can give it as complex instructions as it they want, can query the familiar and receive sensical replies....
Maybe the familiar is more like a drone or ROV? When directly piloted by the master, they effectively gain human intelligence and understand their master's inputs. At other times they're running on a more instinctual AI, derived from the animal form.
Zeim, I don't think of telepathic communication the same way as you do. Neal thinks of it a third way. So keep in mind that we have a fundamental belief differences. My understanding is that it does not have to be words. I looked all over the internet until I found the ONE source we can rely on, Jeremy Crawford: Sage Advice
Just curious Nep ... are you saying that you want the 'non-magic users' to just walk in and start fiddling with 'random stuff' in the rooms? While that might be exciting ... I doubt the excitement would last all that long <chuckle>
Ken, I've use lots of things in the past but now I use Roll20 which makes mapping easy. You can create a free game there, throw up your maps which then get a grid, if you so like. Next step is to add/create tokens for PCs and monsters. Place therm and there's your map. My players know to move their tokens in Roll20. I usually just take a screen shot, go into Paint, crop out what I don't want and add the map here. You'll see that there's a link to this game's corresponding Roll20 game in the list of threads. If you like, we can get together online and I can show you how. Note that I've been on Roll20 since: 07/10/13 and according to their stats I've played 6630 hours there. Zeim and I ran Hoard of the Dragon Queen and The Rise of Tiamat to 20th level there for our FTF friends.
Nep - Not sure what's changed in the pc sheet you've downloaded from Roll20 but if you look at Zhu's and Arus' they are different then everyone else's. The font is huge and much of the information is missing or truncated from the sheet?
My house is FINALLY in some order! The contractors left Friday but I've been working like a dog since. I had to undo/redo a lot of their work, move furniture, yada, yada. But we're there now
I'm trying to coordinate integrating Neil back into the game. He and I have been going at it for about 2 months now in PM threads and any delays here are because I've put some effort into getting him moved forward. The timing looks really good for a Xmas reunion!
I wouldn't say that "the house" is done - just about 1/3 of it. Lots more work in the plan. As for Neil, nobody has to wait for him. It's probably the opposite. He's probably a bit further along than you all.
<heh heh heh> Yeah, I get that on the 'home improvements' <g> I have owned three houses in my life and all but the last one had been an 'ongoing project' <chuckle>
Yep. We still have to rip up the carpet upstairs, refinish the hardwood floors, paint upstairs, refurnish, put a new roof on and relandscape. Sometimes I think moving is the cheaper alternative!
Apologies. The wife is on a role. Once I did the downstairs she decided we had to do her office. I've spend my day off today painting. Much more work coming so figure I'm slow until New Years.
I’ve told my wife she can do anything she wants to the house, redo the kitchen, put in new floors, anything. My only requirement is that we hire someone to do it. I am beyond any interest in doing the work myself.
Believe me. The stuff I do isn't tough. The only problem is having a boss that wants things done when the mood strikes her, without consideration of what I want to do with my free time.
A quick note everyone. The power of the Forge of Spells is limited. See the description attached.
You might then be wondering what that mean to the doppelganger. Would you put him above still try to sell it anyway? Let's assume he's not Lawful Good and has nefarious motives. Is there something that he knows or is trying to learn that could revitalize it and make the effects last longer? These are things you can think about for now.
Gypsy asked me a good question about the cost of winter clothing. A couple of silver here or there probably isn't a major factor for your PCs. Well, maybe for some But in tactical terms, I'm assuming that you're wearing cloaks and other clothing appropriate for autumn now that winter approaches. There may be extreme weather at some point and we'll deal with it then, but you have loads of time to prepare for that.
Your choice of clothing, Armani or Walmarts, is part of your character development. It probably should be based on your lifestyle. As you can see, there's a range. If you live in abject poverty (Chandan anyone?) you're probably wearing squalid clothes. If you're a noble or aristocrat, you'll probably be paying up. As you can see from the two tables, the cost of clothing kind of corresponds to the daily living expenses you would spend daily.
If you haven't added these to your equipment list, go ahead and add what you want and deduct an appropriate amount. We'll assume that you acquired them during the recent downtime. As they say, you are what you wear!
I am ok with the assumption that a ranger has outdoor clothing for all sorts of weather. As I said, it's mostly about character description. Do what you feel is right.
LOL. Zeim, I had to get out 1099's. We converted to a new system in the middle of the year, configuration mistakes led to flawed data. There is a compliance deadline. Agile had nothing to do with this (but we're as far away from agile as can be). This was an all out fire fighting exercise.
At least it's not your fault, Nep. Personally, I tend to find its my own doing when I work during a holiday. If I didn't make myself available, I wouldn't be, so I only have myself to blame.
In the meantime, here's a D&D related question.
Do you all have a favourite class? Has it changed over different editions of D&D? What is it about the class that appeals to you?
Spellcasting classes are my preference, with Arcane types at the top, although I sometimes don't mind playing Clerics and Druids. My least favorite are plain fighter types. I can play Paladins and Rangers as they do get some spell abilities, but standard Rogues & Fighters I usually don't care much to play. Monks are odd. Sometimes I can play one and sometimes not.
As for changes over time, my very first D&D pc was an Elven Mage and my preferences haven't really changed much.
I don't disagree with that =at all= Zeim <g> Under the right circumstances ... I can play just about any type. The 'back story', the 'setting' and the like matter a lot, but, in the end, for me, it is the GM that matters most!
I've always been drawn to Monks. In Basic D&D, they were called Mystics, only released in the Master Set. Until that point I'd been experimenting with Thieves, Dervishes and Shamans, always with an Eastern flavour. Once I discovered the Monk class in D&D 3rd Ed, I was smitten.
I don't think it's the Eastern flavour as such that appeals to me, since you can colour any class however you want culturally. I like how the Monk does away with weapons and armour. Seeking out the best gear is always a bit stressful, I find.
That's exactly what I'd say of you too, AJ. I always expect an interesting build from you, usually a front-row combatant. Similar to you, Zeim. You like to find synergistic combos of race and class, though you tends towards spellcasters, I think.
Let's see. Gypsy, you tend to like agile characters, capable of stealth, in D&D or other games. In D&D that seems to manifest as rogues mostly, would you agree? You always play humans, I know that much because you've said as much.
MikeD, I am thinking back and you also play humans in D&D. Your characters tend towards soldierly types, fighters or rangers, but rugged, down to earth, always lighter armoured skirmishers, iirc.
I haven't played D&D a whole lot. GM'ed it plenty. Hey, here's a neat idea! List your D&D player characters if you can, as below (only those you created yourself, not those you took over from another player).
M Human Thief (Basic D&D)
M Human Dervish (Basic D&D - a sort of desert-orientated cleric class allowed to use blades)
M Gnoll Shaman (Basic D&D - a humanoid wizard)
M Human Mystic (Basic D&D - even drew a picture of this ninja dude, never got a chance to play him. We moved on to play Cyberpunk instead where my first character was a Rockerboy who played piano! What a stupid f***ing idea that was!? It'd be like playing a D&D bard who played piano. How's he carry it around on adventures??)
M Half-elf Fighter (D&D 3rd Ed)
M Half-orc Barbarian (D&D 3rd Ed)
M Human Monk (D&D 5e)
M Dwarf Wizard (D&D 3rd Ed)
M Triton Paladin (D&D 5e)
A bit of a mix! But I definitely play males in D&D, it seems. Although that Dwarf Wizard was in Exeter's game within a game, where I was playing a female player playing a male character... We miss you, Ex!
<heh heh heh> don't disagree ... 'specially here <g> The mostly human thing is because I know what a human is. Not nearly as sure about elves or dwarves, for example <shrug>
And I like the 'solitary' idea ... probably ... because of the 'characters' I have encountered in my reading <g>
I used to play and GM D&D a lot. That all sort of faded when my local F2F group dissolved and and 5th ed came out <shrug> I hate working with a system I never had a chance to play <sigh>
As to Bern, consider him M ranger (d&d 4th ... or 4.5 ... not sure now)
Neal - Too many to list. First one (in the Chainmail version) was an Elven Wizard (killed off by Neptune, btw, for which I will never forgive him ).
After that I have played every class in every version of D&D, most several times. Only exception would be 4e. It wasn't around long enough before 5e came out for me to get to every single class they had (and they had lots and lots of them!).
So since I can't list all of them (too many to remember them all or have space for), I'll list some of the most memorable ones:
- Elven Wizard (Chainmail) - killed by a Goblin who committed suicide to take him out - Elven multi-class Fighter/Mage/Druid/Thief (1st ed) - A party unto himself - Galahad - (2e) - Yes, the actual Galahad. Wielding Excalibur. Played him in a game that used the Deities & Demi-gods supplement. He went thru the Machine of Lum the Mad and gained invulnerability - Human Cavalier (3.5) - killed a horde of high level demons/slaad by himself. At the end he was at negative HPs (which Cavaliers were allowed to have, but could not fight at). One slaad was left, almost dead, when he dropped to negative hps. He took it out only because he had a magical crossbow that loaded itself and all he had to do was pull the trigger - Human Cleric of Asmodeus (3.5 based, but played in a game run by Deirdre on Compuserve) - Elven Swordmage (4e) - Played at Gencon - Human Monk 20th+ level (3.5 based, but played on DL in the cross-world games run by Janet & Caroline). He had demi-god-like powers - Teifling Warlock (5e) - Played from 1st level (created at Gencon) to 20th in the Tiamat campaign
I played dozens of 2e pcs, but that was also the version I DM'ed the most, including taking a party thru the classic: Against the Giants/Drow/Lolth 7 module series that ended in the Abyss. Two most memorable scenes from that campaign:
1 - The Party's Paladin had his mind stripped away by a bad pick from the Deck of Many Things. They were leading him along on a rope. The party was in the Abyss on a narrow walkway with raw chaos lapping on both sides. They had a door to get thru and had tried and been pummeled by hidden foes on the other side numerous times. So they tied the Paladin to his warhorse, opened the door, and slapped the horse on the rump to send it charging thru the door. The Paladin was blown to bits by multiple attacks, but the distraction let the party get into the room.
2 - At the very end of the campaign, the party is literally standing in Lolth's ante-chamber with her on the other side of the door. This party had a lot of in-fighting with several pcs who just did not get along with each other. It came to a head in that space, with the party attacking each other while Lolth almost died of amusement.
Elven Wizard (Chainmail) - killed by a Goblin who committed suicide to take him out
...I think it was a kamakazi kobold. It was a good death.
I've played fewer. Gort was my favorite. Zeim killed him off. He was a dwarven fighter thief and one of Llolth's handmaidens got him. But before that he killed the fire giant king by painting a spiked pit with Nolzurs pigments under him.
I tend to alternate between males & females, though I find it hard to buy into a female human fighter. I do have a preference for humans but have played elves, half elves, dwarves and the odd gnome. I like rouges but also fighters, rangers, paladins, also played a monk and a spellcaster but usually multiclassed.
I think this game will be my most adventurous D&D character ever! My Gnoll Shaman sounds exotic but was created for an all humanoid party when GAZ10 The Orcs of Thar came out in 1988. We also had an Orc, a Troll, and (a bit randomly) a Shadow Elf in the party. So in that company a Gnoll Shaman wasn't so unusual. Tritons give a lot of scope for creativity though. In Forgotten Realms they're said to have a major civilisation spanning into the Plane of Water, located somewhere in the ocean, but that's as much as has been written.
You have not been watching the movies I have been watching <chuckle> There are plenty of movies with strong female fighter characters. Off the top of my head ... the Resident Evil franchise (actually, anything with Milla Jovovich <g>) ... Tomb Raider (again,Angelina Jolie is awesome in everything I have seen her in <g>) Of course there is also Wonder Woman <shrug>
Red Sonja- speed and grace, plus strength. she was a match for Conan, because she was faster than he was. and that is just one thought that came to my mind first
I think there are many strong female warrior characters in fiction, though many are more defined by being survivors. Ripley and Sarah Conner, frex. Neither of them chose the fight.
In more recent times you have Cara Dune from The Mandalorian, who was superb, though it helps that she was played by Gina Carano, who is a real world female warrior (UFC, retired).
And Furiosa from Fury Road. One bad-arse woman.
That's science fiction, mind you. In traditional fantasy fiction, female fighters have never been terribly convincing, I agree with Gypsy on that.
Red Sonja paved the way for the chainmail bikini brigade during the sword-and-sorcery/Boris Valejo era and fantasy still hasn't quite recovered imo. People talk about Brienne of Tarth and she was a solid enough background character but that's about it. Éowyn had heart but had so little to do she was barely a character at all.
Your post 'sparked' a memory. Can't remember the movie. It was post apocalyptic and our 'heroine' was an amputee that persevered in spite of that!! =If= I remember the title, I will post it <g> But I am sure I will watch it again on NF <g>
I think that Wonder Woman and the Amazons, especially how they were portrayed in the recent movie, was quite convincing. It was, the exception rather than the rule in terms of fantasy female warriors.
BTW, sorry for not posting in game. I've been tied up with my family on vacation. Time has been there for a quick post to keep other games going but not for DMing this game the way it should. Maybe in the next day or two.
Yeah, it was Bad Batch. Thanks for the reminder Neil.
AJ ... I would say that is because Xena was never a strong =female= lead. The stories and such never seemed to have been written with a female in mind. You could have put a guy into that part and not have to chance much ... beyond the costume <weg> That doesn't mean they weren't fun to watch, though <g>
I don't dislike female fighters on the whole - just can't easily come up with a convincing justification in D&D. Can be done.. and I've done it.. but real shortage of convincing back stories for me.
I wrote about Xena, erased it, and rewrote it because of "political correctness". I'll put aside PC for a moment and spit it out.
The The "bikini brigade" is simply the film industry perceives what people want to see. Xena and Gabrielle walked around semi-naked together for years and I'm pretty sure that the production studios were thrilled that straight men and gay women all wanted to see that.
Xena is what, in my mind, the prototypical fantasy genre female warrior hero would be.
And for many, like Gypsy, the backstory is important. I'm the opposite so if I decide to play a character, it's usually because I want to see how I would best use the powers that the character has.
Same here, Nep. Backstory usually comes second for me too, after I've figured out what build I want to experiment with, or if it's a more free-form system, after I've come up with a short elevator pitch for a character.
As a GM I'll take whatever a player gives me for their character. I've known some players who'd rather submit a description and have the GM create the character, and there's a lot to be said for that approach. After all, a GM will likely build a character that they know is perfectly tailored for the adventure. No undead-slaying cleric in an adventure without undead, frex.
Neil, while it can make things more ... consistent / well integrated, it =is= a lot more work for the GM <g>
Nep, there are a lot of different GM styles ... not all of them for everyone. But there are also a lot of different player styles as well, so hopefully everyone will find a game that works for them <g>
Aye, and another pitfall is that if the player asks the GM to build the character, it can just facilitate the player not engaging with the system and not learning it.
In my message games I try to keep the system behind the scenes so no-one has to worry about it, because I know I'm often (possibly always) testing new systems. But in a ftf game, even if you're playtesting a new system, it's only a legit playtest if everyone around the table gives it a fair shake.
Completely agree that every DM, and every player, has a different preference for running, or playing in, games. The nice part about our community is there is something for everyone.
If you enjoy soaps or games where everyone sits around chatting and talking at length about their backstories (the old 'Tavern' games) there are games for you. If you prefer to min/max a pc and do lots of skill checks and combat, and your backstory is something you have completely forgotten about after a few months, there are games for you. If you like games where there are lots of single-threads for individual pcs and getting 2 or more of them together is a rare occurrence, there's games for you too.
Nep, Zeim, I'm running a D&D 5e playtest for ftf friends soon and have lined up either the Starter Set or Secrets of Sokol Keep.
I have some questions you might know the answer to.
How long does it take to run the Starter Set around a table, in your experience?
I tried out D&D Beyond for its character builder, but holy fish firkin it's expensive!! We're talking over 300 bucks!
Does Roll20 have access to all the official content, or just the SRD? How much does it cost?
Finally, since this session will include a 6 YO and a 10 YO, who've never played D&D before---although they have played FFG's Star Wars and End of the World, and Savage Worlds---do you think running 1st level characters is advisable? I remember that first encounter in the Starter Set, the goblin ambush, gave us a damn good thrashing in the very first combat round, for example.
Nep is the only one among our virtual FTF group who has paid for the added features in Roll20. It contains the SRD, but I know (for example) I have access to spells from much more than the SRD, but I don't know if that's because Nep paid for expanded stuff. He'll have to answer that. I am also not sure what was in the starter set so it's hard for me to answer that question, but I do think we started it.
In general, with an experienced group of D&D players, playing 5e for the first time (I think using the starter set), it took our group a few hours to get thru an initial encounter that included an ambush by Goblins. But our group are all rules Lawyers and there was much arguing and explanations of how the new rules worked that had to be done.
If you've got a group who will just accept what the DM says and doesn't spend lots of time trying to min-max the encounters, I'd think an hour per melee could be a good guideline.
That sounds reasonable to me, Zeim. I read one guy online who reckoned his group got through the entire Starter Set in 4 hours. Not impossible but they must have found shortcuts and ditched the tavern role-playing at the beginning.
The SRD is free. Wizards makes it's money when you pay for the other things. That sums up the situation. If you want the starter kit, you pay for it. I pay for an adventure when I decide to run a game and almost everything I need to run the game is included. I also pay up to the pro level to use the scripts. I keep using the word "pay". There's a pattern there
About maps, I usually don't say they're that important, but in this module they become much more so. That is by design as the game defines tiers of play.
Tier 1, which was Lost Mines of Phandelver, deals with issues that address villages. Tier 2, where you are now, impacts cities, nations and kingdoms. Tier 3, Deals with dangers to regions or continents. Tier 4. The fate of the worlds or even the multiverse is in your hands.
That being said, we're in Chapter 2 (LMP having replaced the chapter 1 of this module) and in tier 2. By the time you'll have reached tier 3, you'll have traveled throughout the region.
So let's recap some major locations.
In the region that you know, on the western coast there's Waterdeep to the south and Neverwinter to the north. Phandelin is inland between the two cities. You are traveling further inland right now, east into Triboar. Further east is Yartar, the next town over.
While I agree ... especially in a 'single' F2F adventure ... they can be important because of the 'time frames' involved <g> But for a 'campaign' ... similar to what we are running here ... they can be =very= helpful!! So ... thanks <wink>
I should have asked, are there specific questions?
Your character's knowledge of ...the LMP map is strong. ...the larger area map showing Triboar and Yartar would require a medium DC intelligence check and knowledge would not be too deep. ...the largest map (the first one) would require a hard DC intelligence check and knowledge would be vague.
There are circumstances where that's different. Prior personal history and applies as well as other valid adjustments.
Just a reminder Neptune that Davroar is from Narfell. He would only have a passing knowledge though of the various areas in-between from his home to the west coast.
Old Chandan was from Kara-Tur, and Arus is from somewhere under the ocean, so I have ample excuse for knowing bugger all about the setting.
I think I have a firm grasp of the geography of the area in-game at least. Phandelin, Triboar, Yartar, etc.
Btw, for this one shot I'm running I've settled on the Starter Set and have generated all the characters with good old pen and paper. Tbh it wasn't that much of a chore and saved me a lot of money in D&D Beyond dlc.
Actually, paper and pen work just fine. The only reason that our FTF group plays online is distance to the game... unless you want to drive up for the games, Z?
We play on Roll20 now because of that. Before then we set up a video camera over our gaming table and conference Zeim in. Roll20 is much better than that
Hah, nice! What sort of distance are you from the game table, Zeim?
Dwarves on horses btw. It's funny that it's considered incongruous when you think about it, because if you look at the actual size of dwarves in D&D they're perfect for horseriding. Between 4 and 5 feet tall. That's about the size of most Kentucky Derby jockeys and the average ancient Mongol.
It's this guy who'd have problems finding a horse.
Neal - I was remote, on a video feed. The rest of the group was a thousand miles away and pointing a video camera at a grid map where figurines were on a game map. I gave verbal instructions to the DM where I wanted him to move my figurine every turn. Crude, but it worked.
Yes, one thousand miles would be one heck of a distance to travel for a game session. Gypsy and I have been trying to figure out a way to make 200 miles work and I thought that was tricky!
Zeim's in Nashville and we're in New York. It was crude. It did work.
I tried running FTF with some of the DreamLyrics players on Roll20. The challenge was Roll20 training. I was considering it for this game for the melees but finding a date and time to do it would be the first challenge. I'm not sure that there's interest but a 2 month encounter could be tackled in a single session. I'll leave the option open.
BTW, verbal communication is the biggest issue. I've learned that the best practice is to use Roll20 for the gaming desktop and using Discord for voice.
I feel yer pain Nep. We are spread across lots of time zones and we each have the things that take us away from here which are ... sadly ... seldom synchronized <sigh>
If there ever was a good time, it would be on a weekend day. It would be morning for me, early morning for those west of me and afternoon for those across the pond. 10 am here, is 9 am in Indy and Nashville, 3 pm in England.
However, as you said, coordination schedules is beyond difficult. It would have to be planned WAY in advance.
Or we just keep on with what has been working for a =very= long time <wink>
But it might be fun to try and schedule something here ... if not 'real time' ... at least 'coordinated' so that we could do a lot of 'near time' posts <g>
Zeim's response in the IC thread is appropriate. Note that she too flaunts her faction, wearing a silver pendant that identifies her as a member of the Order of the Gautlet. Most of you, during the interlude, learned about objectives for your factions if you picked one. I did this on purpose. It's something I can't do in a FTF game but our PBP format really lends itself to develop a richness to the interpersonal relationships of PC's. It should make for some interesting roleplaying opportunities. Because I've decided to take this track, I will, once again, caution everyone about metagaming. You'll need to decide how your PC feels about members of other factions.
I want to highlight one line: "By 1489 DR, the Zhentarim have mostly become a mercenary organization, taking contracts for pay as Manshoon attempts to rebuild the Zhents into a major force once again". For perspective, see the Calendar thread in SKT Lore.
Are they evil? Some of your PC's will have preconceived notions about the Zhents. It might be your choice or it might be because of how your faction perceives them. Since they are now a mercenary organization, there are many Zhents that are out in the open. Many of the the caravan guards, especially those better armed, might be Zhents. It is possible that you encounter a group of Zhents. Your prejudices might drive you to want to attack. But consider this. If you thought that Nazis and white supremacists were evil and you saw someone walking down the street waving a flag with a swastika, would you try to kill them?
Think about it also as to how it applies to this game. Consider that it's also likely that they have information that is unavailable to other factions because of their associations with the underbelly of society. Consider that they have helped the causes of good when it served their purposes.
It takes really good roleplayers to pull off handling these types of scenarios. I wouldn't have gone down this route if I didn't think you were all really good roleplayers.
If you thought that Nazis and white supremacists were evil and you saw someone walking down the street waving a flag with a swastika, would you try to kill them?
Well, I =might= think really hard about it ... and that is in =this= world. In the world of our game, I can certainly imagine someone ... personally affected by bad 'past actions' ... getting carried away ... and deciding to 'serve justice' <g>
I can =also= imagine that a lot of such people would =NOT= be buying into the whole 'kinder, gentler Zent' propaganda <weg>
All that is true. Each person will have their own beliefs. Upbringing and backgrounds certainly has an impact.
I had a player once who was playing (what was supposed to be) a Lawful Good character and wanted to own slaves. We had an argument about it. I was brought up to believe that slavery is purely evil - period. That person wasn't.
Yes, the whole argument about moral relativism. Is there an absolute definition of good and evil or is good and evil defined by the times and culture a person is brought up and lives in? And if there IS an absolute definition of good and evil, how do we know that what we believe is not evil today will not be seen as evil by future generations?
Well yes. I think D&D's alignment system was probably meant to mean something in the fiction originally but as gamers and games have matured, it's become just another tag, like piercing, slashing, fire, cold, arcane, necrotic, etc. etc..
We had a nice scene in LMP that revolved around alignment perspective, if you recall. When Chandan (Neutral Good iirc) executed the Redbrand abductor (or tried to, can't remember if he was successful), after discovering their child captive beneath Tresendar Manor.
Fantasy isn't actually a favourite genre of mine, believe it or not, so when I read about abducted children I think more about modern crime thrillers. Killing a child's parents and holding the child captive in a dungeon to be abused conjures crimes that are beyond evil in my mind. As an NG character, with a history involving failing to protect a young child, I reasoned Chandan would believe the best thing he could do for the world was execute the culprits, thus guaranteeing they could never commit such a crime again.
Of course, in most people's minds, executing prisoners is tantamount to evil. But reality, and the fictive reality we create for our characters, is rarely so black & white as D&D alignments imply.
Of course, in most people's minds, executing prisoners is tantamount to evil. But reality, and the fictive reality we create for our characters, is rarely so black & white as D&D alignments imply.
I agree 100%. Do good folks do any bad things? Do bad people do any good things? The answer, IMO, is yes.
There is a lot of 'wiggle room' in that whole 'good vs evil' debate.
Our government =KILLS= lots of people every year because 'they' believe that they are 'evil' and will do more 'evil' if left free to act as they wish. Would you like the child molesters and such to 'roam free'??
Nep is right that no one is perfectly 'good' or perfectly 'evil'. The question is where you 'draw the line'. We could 'kill everyone' because =anyone= =could= do 'evil. But that seems like a bad idea <weg> So we make our best guess based on the actions of those 'others'.
The fact that D&D 'alignments' tend to be 'absolute' is something of a 'convenience' for the game ... IMHO. If we were put in the position of having to 'judge' the actions of everyone we encountered, there wouldn't be much 'action'. No. D&D was designed to give us the 'freedom' to enforce our character's own 'ideals' ... because 'we', the players, do not have that luxury <sigh>
Not to mention that D&D began as an action based, heavy combat/adventuring game. The Role playing aspect grew over time as some people started to not want to play caricatures. Plus combat in D&D is all based on reaction. The side who goes first, either thru surprise or initiative, has a tremendous advantage.
So, in a dungeon setting, you turn a corner and see an Orc, knowing Orc=Evil so kill it, allows you to act instead of turning the corner and seeing a person whose outlook on life you want to determine before you decide how to act.
I think the filmmakers did a superb job of making orcs unquestionably evil in The Lord of the Rings films.
The goblins in Moria attack first, asking no questions and offering no quarter, for example.
And it was clever how they showed the first act of an Uruk-hai being born, was to strangle one its 'nurses'. And at every mention Saruman makes of pain and suffering, the Uruk-hai seemed a little excited by the idea.
By the time Saruman despatches them from Isengard, you're in no doubt that these are some bad dudes and there's no parleying with them.
All greatly helped by Weta's amazing goblin/orc designs, that made them like mutated forms of life rather than natural creatures.
Yes. I also liked how Saruman's realm of Isengard was depicted as a manufactory. It aligns with Tolkien's metaphor of LOTR representing the problems of mechanization. Automation and mechanization was the "evil" of the world (i.e. Saruman, Sauron, Orcs, etc) while those who loved nature (Elves, Halflings) were the good guys.
It's fair to say that a historian and scholar of the realms might well look at anything that voluntarily clings to the name 'Zhent' with a leery eye, especially one with no faith in redemption and a tendency to think the worst of certain people.
I don't disagree AJ. But there could be others who are willing to give them a chance to prove that they have turned over a new leaf, as it were <g> It is about what 'they' have been doing to show that 'new leaf' to the world <wink>
1) I doubt that I'll be posting Fri-Sun as I'm traveling to Tampa to watch baseball with my brother. 2) Pandemonium has returned! I've offered him a choice of letting Luminmorn rejoin or of playing a completely new PC. I'll keep y'all posted!
Hi Folks, Thanks for the WB! I might have to get one of those T-shirts, that is awesome.
Regarding my return. Would folks like to see Lumi continue? Or do we want/need something else in the party? Nep has pointed out that in 5E things are a little more balanced, so need is a relative term. However, ...
I want to point out what many of you already noticed. I'm trying to add greater character depth and personal or factional objectives to this game to make it a richer experience. I think that, from a "need" perspective, there is none. Zeim and I make encounters match the power of the party.
As for constraints, I'm limiting choices to what Roll20 can handle. It can't handle some of the very newest classes and races. As I told Pande in private, there are no barbarians, pure fighters, monks, bards or warlocks in the party. There are no gnomes, dwarves or tieflings. I also brought up factions to him, which, in many ways kind of sits on top of alignment IMO.
My suggestion to him was to reach out to the team for ideas. You're full of those!
My question is which would you like to play ... the old Lumi character ... or something completely new? I am good either way ... long as you like where you end up <wink>
So there really are no skill "gaps" to fill. As Nep posted, there are some races/classes we don't have. So, that said, it's more of 'play what you like' than a specific need. If you liked Lumi he's fine. If you want to try something new, that's also fine.
Welcome back, Pande! My approach to D&D parties is, If in doubt, Monk. You don't need any magic items, you're mobile, you're probably the best canary, and if needed can contribute some serious single target damage numbers in a fight.
I haven't played a bard in ... I don't want to state that, it might show my age.
My last monk was 2nd edition. Eek! Besides not sure I could live up to the amazing Chandan!
I will go look at the bard types. I like Lumi, he is a solid character creation in my opinion, he has lots of playing options, which makes him enjoyable, but he is taciturn and not verbose, the exact opposite of what a bard should be imho. Even if Lumi has a very high Cha.
Bard is an awesome choice. They do a little of everything and makes allies better with their inspiring ways. Add to that the roleplaying aspects (I happen to LOVE playing bards!)
Half-Elf Bard, Charlatan background, figured he works as a performer and a spy.
A bit overwhelmed at the spell selection. Happy to have suggestions. Taking College of Lore, figured Counterspell and Fireball for those two choices. Cantrips Light, Minor Illusion, Vicious Mockery Level 1 Bane, Thunderwave, Considering Identify and D Magic, though really open. Could see Disguise Self, and or another illusion option. Level 2 Enthrall, Knock Level 3 Hypnotic Pattern, Tiny Hut? So many choices, so little that he can know.
My concept is a verbal pugilist, who has a literal cutting wit. Probably have a flute as his musical instrument of choice, though singing will also be on his list, and of course a lute. Considered a drum.
Wow has the world of bards change a bit. Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 18, At level 6, he can have a single feat, considering Resilient, and adding it to Con, to get a 14 Con plus Con, Dex, and Cha for saves.
Skills With Expertise and such... Acrobatics +4 Animal Handling +1 Arcana +1 Athletics +1 Deception +7 History +3 Insight +6 Intimidation +5 Investigation +3 Medicine +1 Nature +1 Perception +6 Performance +7 Persuasion +7 Religion +3 Sleight of Hand +6 Stealth +6 Survival +1
Bane I am not sure I would take since you effectively already get a better version of Bane from your Bardic Inspiration. Detect Magic can be useful. Identify has lost a bit of its luster with the new rule that if you study, and handle, a potential magic item during a short rest you can identify it's powers without needing the spell. The spells benefit now is mostly the immediate knowledge.
2nd - The two you looked at are good. I also like Invisibility, Shatter, Suggestion, and Hold Person. Zone of Truth and Detect Thoughts can be good, but they are very specific.
3rd - Dispel Magic is always good. Fear is also a really good spell. Clairvoyance and Tongues are also good, but very specific in use. Leomund's can be great, but it almost never comes up so not sure I'd spend a slot there.
For your School spells, Counterspell is good, but it very rarely comes up. Plus if you have Dispel Magic you can kind of cover it retroactively with that spell. Fireball is also always good, although my Sorceror has it too so up to you whether you want to duplicate for the extra damage potential of go another route for versatility. You could look at Lightning Bolt, Fly, and Haste.
Also, an out of the box thought for School Spells is to take Eldritch Blast. Yes it is only a Cantrip, but it is far and away the best Cantrip in the game.
Haste is always a good choice. I wasn't quite clear on how the 9 spells known get broken up into by level learning. I figured going by what you have available to cast, was a good way of looking at it, which is why I got the number of spells per level I did.
Good to know Bane and Identify can go away for other choices. Can swap for the two that Zeim suggested.
I like the other ones you mentioned for level 2. I considered Invisibility, just had to figure out what to drop for it.
Swapping Counterspell for Dispel Magic works. I was on the fence about Leomond's. With Fireball I was directly trying to offer damage to the mix. Lightning Bolt is a cool spell till we meet Storm Giants. But it does offer damage as long as you can avoid party members. It even bounces off of walls, or does it not do that in 5e?
...Same thing for Fireball until we meet Fire Giants......Another reason why I like Eldritch Blast (or Force Damage spells in general). It does damage that practically nothing is immune to.
I don't think spells bounce off walls anymore. Not even sure if they spill out of small rooms into corridors. I'd think that's the DMs call.
As for the spells, aligning the # known with the numbers you can cast at each level is good. But remember you can cast a lower level spell using a higher level slot and often get more damage or better effect too.
Well my t-shirt didn't turn up and Amazon Prime don't know where it is, so it guess it'll be a refund. Still, the day went well and the kids (I think an 11 and a 6 year old) seemed to love D&D.
It was a little weird because they've played FFG's Star Wars RPG a few times, enjoyed it (they're big Star Wars fans), they've played a Zombie Apocalypse game, they've played Savage Worlds fantasy too. Enjoyed it all.
But for some reason they seemed distinctly more excited by D&D. I think it might've been the simplicity of the core mechanic. It's very easy to grasp.
You roll to hit, you must get over the AC on your d20 and you have a plus or minus to the roll that's shown next to the weapon. Damage is equally simple, a roll with a plus or minus shown next to the weapon. Damage comes off of hit points, that are shown and simply count down.
The core mechanic in Star Wars is far harder for them to comprehend. Since it involves successes/failures, extra narrative benefits/hazards, super-extra narrative benefits/hazards, damage done as Strain, Wounds or Critical Wounds, etc. And the dice have symbols instead of numbers. It's actually really complicated, now that I think about it!
So in Star Wars, the kids tend to roll their dice pool, work out the net result, then look to an adult to tell them what it actually means. In D&D they could figure it out for themselves and that seemed liberating.
Or maybe it was the adventure itself. Chapter 1 of Lost Mine of Phandelver is mostly just chopping the heads of goblins. The other adventures we've played have been more varied in tone.
It reminds me of the advice Paul Elliot gave in his Camp Cretaceous RPG. (He should know, he's a primary school teacher, running RPGs for kids day in day out.)
Iirc his advice for running RPGs for kids boiled down to:
Keep the mechanics extremely simply, success or failure.
Kids will play themselves, no matter what character you give them, so make the character match their personality.
Unless you want them to kill everything in sight, do not make their characters warriors or soldiers, make them non-violent plucky heroes. Because if you give them a sword they will use it to solve every problem.
This latter one worked well yesterday. They slew a buttload of goblins!
I used this clever little web app to level-up the Phandelver encounters for 6 players.
I started the PCs at 1st level, levelled them up to 2nd after the Goblin Ambush. We had one PC drop to 0 in the Goblin Ambush, and one to 0 in Klarg's Cave. Generally they hovered around half hit points.
At the Tampa airport on my way back home so I'll hold off on in-game posts until I'm home, probably tomorrow.
Pande, I sent you a better (in other words correct) link to the Bard Handbook, which is a char op web site. I endorse Zeim's suggestions as they're typically spot-on. Don't poo-poo cantrips as spells. The downside is that combat cantrips aren't guaranteed to work. Opponents either get a save or you must hit on an attack. On the plus side, they are endless. You can cast them a hundred times a day.
The "base" cantrip for bards is vicious mockery, which doesn't do a ton of damage but, if the target doesn't save, it does damage and the target has disadvantage on it's next attack - which will be appreciated when enemy very dangerous
As for running D&D for kids, my hesitation is only that it makes combat seem "normal". I ran for my kids when they were tots (they're 30 somethings now) and I inject ethics into their encounters and had the authorities punish wanton mayhem. The game can be both fun and stealthily educational.
Pande - If you feel limited I'd choose between Dissonant Whispers and Tasha's. They're somewhat similar so taking only one of them should be fine.
In general I like to take a minimum of 1 damage spell (especially one at a lower level that can scale up), 1 spell that incapacitates, and 1 that offers "buffs" to the party and/or gives me added protection. Then focus the rest on general purpose spells. If I get to the point that there aren't any more GP spells I like then I'll diversify and add a damage spell that does a different type of damage and/or a different type of incapacitation.
So, like Hold Person as a primary and then maybe Blindness/Deafness or Hypnotic Pattern if I have room for another. Or Dissonant Whispers first and then Shatter as a secondary.
Since you can always cast a lower level spell using a higher level spell slot, but not the reverse, it's sometimes better to take a 1st level damage spell and use a 3rd level spell slot to cast it with while reserving the highest level spells for general purpose things like Dispel Magic, Fly, and such, that you can't get at 1st level. Especially if you're not the party's primary Mage/Wizard.
Both Dissonant Whispers and Tasha's are great spells. I think he will have to take both. It also fits his whole concept. I like Eldritch Blast a lot, that is why I took it with Luminmorn, so there is one of his extra two. I guess Dispel Magic is always useful, as it can help fix a problem after it has occurred.
It's BASEBALL SEASON!!! What that means is that I'm deep into statistical analysis of players in preparation for my fantasy baseball draft. For those of you that don't understand, take the effort needed to run an epic D&D module and compress that into about a month. I'll be insane until March 23rd, a couple of days after the draft. My spreadsheet already takes 2 minutes to open because of it's size (and I have an SSD!). It means that I'll be realllllllllly slow. I've already warned Pande who has done a good job so far of getting his PC in order.
Well, I have to say I fulfilled a childhood dream today, so thank you coronavirus!
We had an employee leave work feeling ill today, threatening to tip the already jittery atmosphere amongst the staff into company-wide nervous breakdown. (The employee had actually run out of medication for an underlying condition and the doctor confirmed that this had caused the symptoms. They're now restocked, medicated and feeling much improved, and should be back to work on Thursday.)
Thus I called a company meeting, explained this, putting everyone's mind at ease. Finally, I was able to instruct the staff in my most English manner possible, to "Keep Calm and Carry On". Glorious moment.
I would like to get all of you to bed for the night but there are a few clean up things first:
I am working with Pandemonium to get Sindar's background and objectives ironed out. We had a rough sketch but we're going deeper now. He also has to tie a bow on his character sheet.
Arus needs to finish up with the priest. I'm waiting on a post and I don't think Neil realizes. Then he, Bern and Sindar should have drinks or something and secure your place for the night.
Jaliera, Davroar, Kriv and Zhu need to get settled too. So far, only Arus has a place to stay
I'm hoping to get all that done by next weekend.
Also, there's a big "thing" queued up. I need prep time still, but is a FTF session doable? I believe we're in 4 time zones. I was thinking a 5 hour Sat or Sun session at the end of April/beginning of May:
GMT Gypsy, AJ, Neil (6 pm - 11 pm) ET Neptune (12 noon - 5 pm) CT MikeD, Zeim (11 am - 4 pm) PT Pandemonium (9 am - 2 pm)
Sure, it would be good to jump in with Gypsy for some bants at the same time.
I was a bit disappointed that Skype for Desktop only tesselates up to four participants in a video call, everyone else gets shoved in the corner. But for three it won't be a factor.
We've been using Roll20 for everything related to the game other than audio. Zoom for audio. We also used Discord once or twice. Zoom is simpler. Whatever works best.
Hi. I was thinking a Saturday but a Sunday works too. How about we put a bullseye on it.
Sunday April 26th.
I've set up a Discord Server. It probably can use some tweaking. I admit to NOT being a Discord pro. I'm sending out a PM with the link to it and we can use that to share our Discord ID's.
And oh, BTW, I love PB&J and have one almost every night!
It is kind-a weird. I have lost my 'taste for sweet'. About the only 'sweet' thing I eat is dark chocolate ... because 1.) it doesn't have a lot of sugar, more importantly, 2.) it has 'important' anti-oxidants <g>
What does this all mean? Well, you'll have access to these tokens in Roll20 as per the assignments. Yes, you will be acting for them in the session so, if you get a chance, go look at the character sheets for these NPCs.
Modifiers, Nep. Do you add conditional modifiers to an attack when you roll the attack? So frex, Arus gets +2 damage when wielding a one-handed weapon from Duelling.
Also, we never did get around to magic item allocation. I think Arus's non-magical kit is pretty good anyway, but in case we encounter damage resistance or need healing potions, etc.. I'm thinking back to that damn flaming skull in LMP.
IT was fun today! I posted something in the Our Community forum (where I was peak obnoxious), but for record keeping, here's the screen shot I took today...
The game looks really interesting. I noted that many of the writers of modules are old WOTC and even TSR writers - some of the best.
As for the scotch, I wish I was there with you Neil to share a glass. I'm not a big drinker, but I love myself some single-malt scotch from the Islay. Sometimes the peat is too much, so that one looks intriguing.
Yes, that looked like it was some hard work, Neptune, thank you very much. I thoroughly enjoyed myself even before the scotch. Hopefully the indefatigable Kriv Norixius can waylay the fire giants long for us to overrun them, without getting himself Urlamed.
Well ... if there are enough 'aficionados' of 'good Scotch' in the group ... maybe we should get together and pick a good single malt (preferably Isley <g>) as the 'sponsored beverage' in enough time before the next meet up to allow time for 'those interested' to 'grab a bottle' <weg>
I used to be a member of the Scotch Whisky society for years. You could buy bottles from them that were not diluted down to the Excise requirement of 40% vol. Nice!
You're all welcome. I was nervous before running - more about tech issues than anything else (the kind that MikeD ran into). Yesterday wasn't the time or place to troubleshoot. Mike was a trooper and hung in there. I'm glad you all enjoyed it.
Neil, it is a lot of work but it's easier than you think once you know how to use some tools. I have a "Pro" subscription to Roll20 which gives me access to lots of cool tools that simplify things. I'll help out folks that want to run games there.
MikeD, The best that I'm rocking is some Chivas and while it says it's 12 years old on the bottle, I'll wager it aged a few in my liquor cabinet But I'll pour some for our get-together. I drink it neat, like I should. When COVID-19 disappears, I'll get bottle of single-malt Islay.
Zeim, thanks for helping. I know that you were blindsided by my "please help MikeD out request (I saw that grimace LOL). Your "let's roll real dice" suggestion was aces!
It wasn't a problem, really. Just a little annoying to share a screen as every time I made any changes on Roll20 it appeared as if I had to click back in Discord to update the screen share.
I felt bad rolling for MikeD. I wanted him to be more engaged, even with the technical issue, so the idea of "what the heck did we used to do before technology? Roll the damn dice by hand!" just sort of popped into my head.
My favorite scotch is Balvenie 12 Year Old DoubleWood, Speyside Single Malt. They age the single malt in Sherry Casks. Very smooth.
The dangerous thing about Black Bottle is that it's cheap, yet still tastes like a decent, peaty Islay. If your aim is moderation I do not recommend Black Bottle.
I really enjoyed seeing what everyone's characters were capable of too, via Roll20 giving us a summary of the spell/ability being used. Usually we only see the outcome here, and if it's just damage without a kill it looks just like an ordinary attack mechanically. Like Chaos Bolt, most of the time it just looks like a few points of fire or thunder damage, etc. You don't see its true potential unless it fulfils its true potential.
Btw, what browser/OS combo, GPU and broadband were you guys using?
I was using Firefox 75 with Windows 10 1909, an nVidia GTX 1070 Ti, and 70 Mbps FTTC connection.
Nep, the age ... if stated on the label ... is how long it was aged in a barrel ... not the bottle <g> In theory, the time spent in the bottle does not affect the whiskey at all ... assuming the cap is on <g>
FWIW, I am a fan of the Islays as well! Just can't afford them often.
I was using Windows 10, 18363, AMD Ryzen 5 2500U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx, 2000 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) It is a Dell Inspiron 5775 that I upgraded to a nvme SSD, and swapped the hd to additional storage. Chrome, a 100 MB connection wired, which usually runs about 85 or so because of shares in the house.
Well!!! If ya wanna talk 'systems' ... I am running Win 7 on a 15 year old HP laptop <weg> And I got as few 'add ons' and 'apps' as I can manage <wink>
My primary machine is a Lenovo T570 (8GP 64-bit i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40 GHz), Windows 10, Chrome, 100MB connection with 2 extra monitors. But that's just my main system. This is most of my setup. Everything on the Network. There's a 2nd Lenovo T570 (major HW problem), my old Lenovo work desktop running Windows 10, an old Dell Latitude Pentium III laptop and a Gateway 2000 Pentium II both of which started with Windows 98 and now run Windows XP. Lots of these are file servers now.
Hell ... and I thought =I= was 'extravagant' with my =two= displays. Guess it sux being an old fart (with limited 'means') <sigh>
FWIW, I still remember when I had to take my rotary dial phone, dial a number and shove the hand-set into the 300 baud acoustical modem <chuckle> And it was 110 before that <wink>
Nice setup Neptune. I was running Discord on my Surface Pro 4 since I don't have a webcam on my gaming PC, a home-built setup in a 10+ year old Antec tower. I just keep upgrading parts inside as time goes on. Current hardware running is a Intel i5-9600K, 16GB RAM and Nvidia RTX2080 on Asus ROG Maximus XI Code motherboard. I really like my new ASUS 4K monitor I got last year that took me forever to save up for.
I was happy that my 50 Mbps DSL Internet connection managed to keep up with all of the video and surprised my usage was not as much as I thought it would be.
I run a custom built (not by me) PC, 16g RAM with an SSD hard drive and Windows 10. I use Chrome, have a GTX970 graphics card (Like computer games) and a 50Mg connection. For the online connection a Logitech HD 1080p webcam. And I have an ASUS monitor too, 27".
LOL. It's been a more hectic week than expected - considering I'm in near total lock-down. I'm getting to this tonight. Work has been busy. But it's better to be busy than bored, right?
As an FYI, I've needed to retrain myself, an old time AIX/COBOL/DB2 that spent 20 years mastering one ERP (Lawson) to now having to relearn everything as a 60+ year old. I've been teaching myself C#, in a .net environment as well as trying to master all the new tools of Epicor. Add to that that I also had to catch up on about 20 years of neglected webdev tech. It's like studying for a doctorate. That means that I've been spending much of time on Udemy. It's the kind of stuff that needs deep immersion and after a full day of work followed by several more hours of class, I'm kind of drained. It's not something I intended to do. It would have been nice to lean on decades of expertise in my pre-retirement years, but alas, I didn't get to make the decisions
I feel your pain Nep. I was in a similar boat, having old programming skills in the same technologies as you. I chose to move to the Project Management and then Agile Coach areas partly because I dreaded the thought of trying to learn all of the modern programming techniques and languages that you are doing now.
I remember when I learned COBOL back in the 80's my teacher told me it would be an obsolete and dead language within 10 years! Yet it is still running mission critical systems today and actually I know that you know there's a lot of money available for old COBOL programmers nowadays. It is actually not a bad plan for retirement to be a part time COBOL programming consultant.
I was always happiest at the lowest level ... assembly language.
I got my start in collage writing assembly language programs for the PDP-9 and CDC 6500. But I also learned Fortran and C ... just because <g>
I spent my first decade out of collage programming the (mostly) 4 bit single chip micros used in 'smart controls' for things like Amana microwave oven controls.
I started in punch-card mainframe programing, migrated through basic, Fortran, and eventually, C. Mostly do script work now if I dabble at all. Mostly I do many other things.
I understand being too drained to want to do anything creative. No worries on my part. Do what you need to.
<heh heh heh> Yeah. I remember having to carry around my 'special' 'control card' for the IBM keypunch machines ... and the box of cards I carried around for years. I had groups of cards that were functions and subroutines that I could use to 'build' a large part of my programs <g>
Then the university got ASR-33 'teletypes' that let us talk to the machines without needing cards. There were 4 of them originally ... so there was a sign up sheet where you had to 'book' your time. Ahhh ... the good old days <chuckle>
New tech neither bothers or scares me. I returned to college and finally earned my college degree when I was 45. I then studied to get certified as a PMP shortly thereafter. I write code for fun - not joking.
It's just that I have to relearn EVERYTHING. A different ERP and all the business logic and unique tools that needed to be learned on top of having to learn a a different programming language on a different OS using a source editor, a different database and a different report writing tool. I tell people that don't understand that it would be like a skilled American accountant getting relocated to China and having to now work exclusively in a place where the language, laws and culture are all completely new and very different. I was hoping to wind down a bit and relax when I reached my 60's!
And yeah, I wrote quite a bit of Assembler in my day. I've worked on machines as varied as the Apple IIc, GE435 mainframes, Honeywell DPS8 mainframe and DPS6 minis, DEC VAX, IBM 360 - MVS but most of my work over the past 25 years has been on Unix systems (HPUX & AIX). I can make those systems purr.
Legend, thanks Neptune! And I know you said you were hoping to wind down and relax a bit when you reached your 60s, but maybe just maybe you're exactly where you want to be.
[Arus Lays on Hands on Kriv for 28 hit points of healing.]
Just an aside here, and it may not be the case now, but there's an oddity about Lay on Hands to share. Since PC's that are down, making death saves, are at 0-HP. You could expend a single HP on the downed PC and they are up. Like I said, it's probably not the situation but it's a clear way to conserve magical save-a-life healing. The PC can then use hit dice during a rest to recover more or other healing can be done. I just thought I would share.
Aye, I saved 2 points of Lay on Hands in case I need to holy-defibrilate two more characters. But I figured it would be more efficient to give Kriv enough health to make him combat-ready.
Does hit dice healing require an Action?
Update: Ah OK, they're used at the end of a Short Rest.
I was waiting for Zeim and Neil to go for Silvaren and Narth but then the giants go and with double move after double move without having to worry about difficult terrain like members of the party do, the giants will pull away and soon meet their friends. An orog, an or orc and a few magmin will also slow the party down. With a few very hurt individuals, it's time to call the battle and move on with the aftermath....
Sorry about the delay, but I'm tied up most of this weekend.
AJ. What was your plan? Were you going to do a breath weapon thing? Because without something akin to forge fire you wouldn't even scorch it...if it was mundane. It's described as "a bent and broken, c-shaped band of 2-inch-thick metal roughly 11 feet long." But I'm curious.
I was about to start a tangent here about D&D races anyway, so here goes.
I was reading Dungeon Crawl Classics recently, which is a modern new-old school version of D&D.
Unlike proper old school revival games, it doesn't use one of the '70s '80s D&D systems. It's based loosely on 3rd Ed, but trying to incorporate flavour and design tropes of those earlier games.
I quite enjoyed it actually, it has some very fun ideas. But one thing it reminded me of was how races were originally classes in D&D. Dwarf, elf and halfling.
Races have expanded greatly over time, though for me I still choose a race primarily for its synergy with the class I've chosen. (Sometimes I choose the race first and the class for the synergy.)
I guess if you're playing human, synergy is never an issue since they go well with any class in most D&D versions.
But is race ever a fundamental part of D&D character creation for any of you?
For example, might you read about gnomes and think "I really like the idea of this isolationist gnomish community with internally liberal social systems but a kind of xenophobic attitude to the outside world", and then launch character creation off of that without really thinking what the gnome's benefits are and how they might synergise with class.
Kriv can certainly display his anger and spite for roleplaying purposes, but just as your sword and armor don't melt in the conflagration that is a fireball, don't expect this thing that the fire giants risked their lives for to be impacted by your magic.
I have gone both ways from a story that gives me race and class, or a race that denotes a class. In recent versions, Sindar was a half-elf by story, so Bard became a focus due to race. Yet Luminmorn was a Paladin first, and then I created the story and picked the race to fit.
Typically I start with Class first, then choose the race that best fits the class, such as Teifling Warlocks.
If I find a new variant race that seems interesting I will flip that script and choose the class that best fits that race, but I usually end up in the same place.
I know some people like to play against tropes and for RPing purposes might choose something like a Halfling Wizard or Dwarven Thief, and can have lots of fun playing against type but I usually don't do that.
Since I lean more to a style of roll-playing rather than role playing, when I do play a character, I only pick a race because of the statistical advantages it might offer. When I start to play a character, I rarely care much about background or personality. My general approach is to create a mostly blank canvas PC and let the personality evolve within the game.
As a DM, I am mostly concerned about creating a game that gives the players what they enjoy. Since there's a broad spectrum of players I try to provide both. In this game, I tried to add the opportunity for players to add depth of character with complex backgrounds and personal objectives.
Yeah, in D&D I don't think I've ever read a race where I was suddenly enthralled and wanting to play for their background.
Whilst pondering my paladin build for this game, I'd recently watched the Aquaman movie and enjoyed their imagining of an undersea kingdom. So tritons blipped my radar, and then reading closer I saw their mechanics were a good match for a paladin, especially a conquest paladin, so it all came together from there. But if tritons hadn't been a good match, I'd have chosen a different race that was, regardless of the background.
It's funny, but Middle-earth is very close to a D&D setting, yet if you asked me to create a One Ring RPG character, the first thing I'd choose would be race and it would be the defining choice. Completely opposite to D&D. I wonder why that is?
Also, here's a question. What's the most unusual race you've ever played? Has anyone ever played a monstrous D&D party?
I played a gnoll in an all monstrous party once, Zhongbai his name was. Cool character. Playing in a monstrous campaign was good fun, though wantonly bad taste. It was like if someone made a Lobo comic out of D&D.
Other than that, yeah, I guess triton is the weirdest race I've played. We need AJ in this discussion now to tell us how its done.
Way back (Neptune might remember more details) my FTF group once played a game where we were all evil monsters invading a village of good persons. We were intent on destruction and slaughter. I do not recall what race I played, although I think it was a Drow (way before Drow was an allowable pc race).
In Neptune's current FTF campaign (that I am supposedly co-running although I've done very little to help him to this point honestly) I am playing a Svirfneblin Mystic. It is a psionic class and I came across Deep Gnome details as an alternate pc race and thought they made a good fit together. That's about as close as I've come to choosing a class based on race, but in this case it was kind of choosing them together. Usually it is choosing race based on class.
When I was in my youth we played a hybrid Ad&D game with Arduin Grimore. I played a Deodanth, which is a half elf, half vampire. They are crazy jumping killing machines. Phraints are bug types that fall along the same lines. Both very fun and very weird.
I have played plenty of monster races, though my most fun would be a Knoblin. Cross between a Kobold and a Goblin with wings, think one foot and a half of flying winged death, with a just a touch of annoyance.
Yeah I like weird. Who would have guessed with a moniker of Pandemonium.
The delay in my post was due more to my scratching my head for a week trying to figure out how to handle the aftermath of the battle. In the end, I took a lazy route, hoping that less was more. I don't quite like how the module handles this whole segment. I guess, at a table, I could lead you by nose-rings to the right approach, but here, with time lag, I can't redirect easily.
If I were to review this module, I would point to this section of this chapter as an "awful" design in the most critical part of the game. Of course, you all drifted to the least productive approach because of your lazy DM. It's not your fault. I will need to nudge you in the right direction, I think.
Not without good reason, mind. In D&D and its successors alone, I've played a Kyton, Kobolds, a Jermelaine, a Neanderthal, a Dragon, A Githzerai, A Yeti, A Modron, A Petal, A Warforged, the list goes on. Those with good memories may remember one of my old games here from a decade or so back, FSH: For Sea and Heterocracy, where each player was a sentient undersea species of one kind or another. (In the initial draft I was considering running it as D&D, with all manner of Sahuagin, Kuo-Toa, Tritons, Merfolk and the like as options.)
Outside of D&D, I've played a hivemind of energy beings a few times, which probably counts as the weirdest.
I wanted to share my experiences of running Lost Mine of Phandelver with you guys.
Notably, I've been running for a friend's kids, brothers aged 6 and 10, their dad and mum, and two other friends.
Asking what they wanted to play, the 6 year old wanted to be a dragon, the 10 year old a fireball-throwing wizard, a la Arrowhead's remake of the classic Gauntlet coin-op.
So I used playable dragon wyrmling race from the DM's Guild, and the Expert class from Unearthed Arcana. That gave me a playable dragon whose schtick is helping other PCs (using the Help action). This felt like a responsible match-up for the 6 year old.
For the 10 year old I created a Draconic Heritage Sorcerer, who in the fiction is the half-brother of the dragon, allowing the two brothers to play as brothers. This has worked well so far.
There's been a lot of whiffing of rolls, some rounds where it seems no-one, not even the GM can roll above an 8! These can be a bit frustrating. Neptune, Zeim, do you guys find that when you play, or does my group have cursed dice? [Looks around for pchan -NM]
We've just completed the Redbrand Hideout under Tresendar Manor, but the most deadly encounter so far, by a long shot, has been that very first goblin ambush. We were on the cusp of a TPK there.
The PCs are all 3rd level now, and most of the classes are coming into their own.
The only class that's underwhelming us is the Cavalier. In theory, it's a clever way for your tanky Dwarf Fighter to draw aggro from a troublesome boss monster, but in practice it lacks offensive bite.
For example, our Vengeance Paladin can draw aggro just by dealing so much damn damage the enemy would be crazy to ignore her. With her plate armour, she can tank the hits too.
In essence, why try to grab aggro using a special ability when just pumping out damage has roughly the same effect, with the added pro of killing the enemy quicker.
The Cavalier's player might stick with it, but I've created him a Minotaur Zealot Barbarian to consider before we play next. Putting out 3d6+6 on a rage attack should allow the player to feel he's making a worthwhile contribution.
Neptune, Zeim, what's your opinion on Crowd-Control builds like Cavalier, or indeed Arus in this game (Conqueror Paladin)? Do they pan out eventually?
MikeD. Revised Ranger is an interesting class btw. I prefer it to standard Ranger as it has a more unique style, being largely front-loaded with abilities and making favoured enemy really strong as a schtick. Especially if you choose Goblinoid in the Phandelver module!! As a GM I wouldn't allow it as a multiclass option though, nor allow use of any subclasses outside of those in its Unearthed Arcana article.
We'll be heading to Thundertree next, so I think another very deadly encounter is on the cards and we'll have some dragon vs dragon action!
Next session I'm starting everyone with an Inspiration point, and will start using an Escalation Dice mechanic, like in 13th Age.
This will be a 1d3, starting at 1 in 1st Round, 2 in 2nd, 3 in 3rd and onwards. My plan is for this bonus to apply to attack and damage, like a magic weapon, and will even apply on a miss. So if, say, the Ranger misses his attack, instead of doing 0 damage, he'll do 1, 2 or 3, depending on the Ecalation Dice in that round.
The idea behind this is to speed up combat, since we're playing by Zoom at the moment. The kids are great at sitting at the table and paying attention (probably better than us adults tbh), but when we're all whiffing rolls, everyone including the GM starts to get a bit bored.
Neil - First, yes, it can be frustrating when no one is rolling high enough to hit. There is usually more camaraderie about that when you play FTF, so it's less impactful, but on Zoom it can indeed get boring.
The Goblin ambush is indeed quite deadly. The dragon attack is dangerous as well, especially if the party is better at HTH combat than ranged as the dragon can fly around and breathe on everyone until they're dead. Also dangerous was the fight to clear out Cragmaw Castle.
As for crowd control builds, using 4e terms you had 2 kinds. The "Controller", who usually was a spellcaster type who could use things like Web, Hold Person, Slow, etc to 'manage' the battlefield or the "Defender" type, who excelled in being 'sticky'. i.e. the pc who ran up into a group of foes and made it very difficult for them to move away from him thus forcing them to attack him instead of others.
Both of these could be very important for a party, BUT the player of them has to have the right mindset to play them. I played an Elven Defender type in a 4e game Neptune ran and my focus as I levelled up was increasing my AC, Temp HP, and retaliatory skills. I enjoyed rushing into a group of enemies and effectively making them waste their turns trying to hit me or get thru my temporary hps, and the few times they did hit me I would get an automatic return attack. In the meantime the rest of the group could stay safe and pick them off with ranged attacks.
However neither of those pc types usually does a lot of damage, which is why I said you had to have the right mindset. If you can get enjoyment by frustrating the DM (by disrupting the ability of his monsters to use their powers effectively) then you can have fun with those types of pcs. If, however, you want to blow things up with Fireballs, get massive damage (like with a Rogues backstab bonuses), or get multiple attacks with your 2-handed sword with big damage plusses then you need to play "Striker" types, again using 4e terms.
Thanks Zeim. The party is evenly split with range and melee, so the dragon shouldn't have it all its own way. Also, the party has its own dragon, so I have no idea how that'll play out. Awesome, I hope.
Regarding crowd control, there are probably some classes that do it well in 5e, I just haven't come across them yet. It's also possible the best crowd control will come from a wizard, rather than a high concept subclass. Cavalier and Conqueror have been underwhelming in their effectiveness so far, though I think Conqueror's jam comes online at 7th level.
My Cavalier player has the right mindset, I guess you could describe the problem as the class feels compromised. It's a subpar damage dealer and subpar controller, struggling to make an impact with either.
I have always hated the 'randomness' of dice to some degree. It =can= be interesting in character creation, for example, but can =really= suck in combat <sigh>
Unfortunately I have never found anything better <g>
I want to apologize if I'm a bit slow at the moment. While I'm now "temporarily retired" (lost my job to COVID-19 but am not eager to get right back to work), I've been keeping very busy with other things. There are about two dozen house projects that I've been deferring for years. Now that I have the time, I'm doing them. I've reshaped my garden, sealed my driveway, ripped up old carpeting, painted half my house, etc. My current project is planting a hedge. So, if I'm slow, it's because I collapsed after doing way more physical work than I've done in decades.
<heh heh heh> I remember when I first retired. Took me almost 2 years to actually divest myself of all those ... 'commitments' that I no longer felt the need to keep up with <wink>
Take your time. We get it and we will be here!! Well ... at least =I= will be here <chuckle>
I get it. Summer is outdoors season so work a full day then go out and do manual labor for a couple of hours and yeah beat up. But if I don't do it now it will be winter and I won't be doing it then.
Nah. I'll be done by today with this project. I'm just taking a 15 minute breather right now. I am laying down a hedge at the end of the driveway (2000 square feet) I just sealed by myself.
I needed to build a retaining wall which included setting 30 cinder blocks - some of which I had to dig up from other places on my property. Beyond that wall is a 10-20 foot artificial cliff. When they built my house it was on a slope and there was no place to put a driveway. So they got a few dozen yards of old cement blocks (sidewalks and chucks of road they had dug up elsewhere), piled it up and dumped a few tons of dirt on it to make a plateau. Then they planted arborvitae trees as a hedge to hide their shoddy work. Here's what they did:
Needless to say, they did the job the cheap way and mother nature took care of the rest. One great feature of those trees is that they are meat and potatoes for deer. To top it off, rain and erosion has toppled most of the trees because the jackass that planted trees planted them too close to the edge of the precipice without doing anything to slow the erosion. That's why there are trees on top of those concrete slabs.
I planted a small hedge at the end of my driveway at the most dangerous spot for cars a few years back and decided to wrap it around. Notice that I cut off all the dead limbs that the deer ate. And no, these trees don't grow on an angle. The dear try to climb them and to get at the leaves. The plan is to plant a "deer safe" hedge under the trees. I am planting Wax Leaf Privit.
I cut down or dug up the old trees and started to build a bed for the plants. (BTW, I live in the county of Rockland, which got it's name appropriately). There's a 30-50 lb rock under every square foot of dirt. My muscles are bulging! I can hurl these rocks 10-15 inches! I'll use those rocks to build a natural rock edging in front the plants. Notice the cinder blocks I'm seeting in the back (no, I did not level them yet). Those suckers are heavy!
Next I have to prep the soil, plant the seedlings, top it all off with mulch and build the rock wall. Not much!
Sux ta be a home 'owner' ... I should know, I have had a couple!! I am much happier in this 'edition' where the 'edition' is responsible for almost all of the 'routine maintenance' <weg>
Forgot about my idea for sending ravens. Didn't realize the distances involved because the spell only lasts 1 hour and they wouldn't reach any of the big cities in time.
Ah. OK, just scratch it. I considered that mostly favor as it wasn't central to the plot. I liked the idea because it kept reminding be about the ravens in Game of Thrones
Same. I always get confused by surveys that start asking what percentage of the time I do XYZ though. I mean, who can honestly give an accurate answer without some serious record-keeping.
Actually that is a great idea. They should offer some kind of a discount, even 50% off a year at Beyond and I bet people would gobble it up for the subscription.
We're coming up to another situation where FTF could be in play. Next weekend is Labor Day in the US. I was thinking Saturday the 6th? I would do it as early in the morning NY time (EST) as Pandemonium could handle. We did 10am ET last time.
I can do any of the days but I'm pretty sure that the Euro contingent has work on Monday. So either Sat or Sun works for me (Sept 5 or 6).
I have plans Saturday morning till mid afternoon. So Sunday is better for me, as I have to on earlier. I would prefer no earlier than 8, thought 9 or 10 is more appealing on a Sunday.
I want to be sensitive to everyone, including the all-important breakfast-lunch-dinner as well as full night's sleep[i] objectives. Most important, the [i]taking-care-of-Tusk constraint. Gypsy, if this doesn't work, can you tell me what are the lousy hours so that I can schedule around them?
BTW, to get to where we need to be in the game, we'll need to get the caravan on the road by Friday. That shouldn't be a big deal.
I attached a graphic showing time zones for a game that starts at 1 pm my time.
Really I just need an hour to do tea, that cook & eat. So 7 to 11 would work well but is that long enough?
And can I suggest we try Zoom? I have an account so no worries there but last time we did Discord for DL, Neil, Tusk and myself spent over an hour trying to get Tusk & I in. Wasn't our end because we could get into other Discord rooms no problem!
If you have the paid Zoom account that lets us play, then I'm all for that. Just publish connection information in a PM to the lot of us or somewhere not open to the gen pub. I don't mind DreamLyrics "observers".
I just started the UK-NHS get in shape plan. Let's see how it goes. Supposedly I'll be doing a 5K run in 8 weeks. Consider that I have trouble with a .5K run right now, I think it's far-fetched, but we'll see what this old man can manage. The plan is called Couch-to-5K (C25K)
<heh heh heh> When I was in collage I did a couple of 'runs' and several 'century' bike rides (that is a 100 mile ride <g>)
But that was when I was in collage ... coming up on 50 years ago <sigh> I did a bit of 'bike riding' when I moved here (to Ft. Wayne IN). But after about $200 in replacement tires from all the ... 'crap' on the streets, I decided to 'park my bike' <sigh>
We missed you Mike. I'll post a wrap. It was an EXCITING time for the doppelganger ... err, Bern Next time we'll need to do a setup session a couple of days before. Zoom is really easy, usually.
And going forward, remember that no matter what tech we use for audio/video, Roll20 is there and has been tested. It's an integral part of the game since that's where we maintain the character sheets. It also provides a secondary means of communication, we just don't use it because it's been wonky.
Since Mike, your setup is the weak link, let's you and I find something that works before the next online session. We can try to use Discord, Roll20, Zoom - and even the telephone. I think that'll work right?
Discord is a problem for me and didn't work that well for Mike the first time either. Let's hope you can find something, ideally getting Zoom working as it worked so well for the rest of us. I can open a meeting for you if you want to test, just let me know!
And BTW I really enjoyed the session, firstly remembering more of the Roll20 controls than I thought I would on my second time! But the main pleasure for me is to meet the players in the virtual FTF environment. Thanks everyone!
It made me think a lot more about my character mechanically too. I'd largely forgotten about spells since I created the character, for example. I do need to go through and create a proper spell selection.
But yeah, the highlight is the face-time with you all.
MikeD. Zoom might not work with your 15-year-old Windows 7 laptop but if you have an Android or iPhone, you could download the Zoom app onto it.
Then all you'd need to do is login to the meeting on your phone and prop it up somewhere. It would use your phone's camera and mic. Then your laptop would be dedicated to Roll20.
The only downside is you wouldn't see all our video feeds at the same time on your phone's smaller screen, only the active talker. That might be adequate though.
Edit: Anyway, I need to continue writing my in-game post!
I think the phone and Zoom is the best option if your PC is that old. As long as you can get into Roll20. You can test that out on your own by logging in. We have time now.
If you only need a short time on Zoom, anyone can create a meeting. Let me know if you need a longer session.. or more testers! We should agree a date for a test. Mike when is a good time for you?
I'm probably going to be missing for a few days. I've got a lot of errands and things going on. I might not be able to post again until Sunday or Monday.
So moving the topic of Zhu's play to the OOC thread.
Metagaming here for a minute.
For example, Zhu, the pc, might make the comment here:
"Hey, aren't we chasing down some giants? Aren't we kind of in a rush and should not get sidetracked?"
However I (as a co-DM) know how the campaign is designed and it is a series of modules that your DMs want you to play in and so we will have to pause fairly frequently to take on side tasks.
Hopefully each will fill in some clues about the larger mission so ultimately will provide value.
Aye. And we're in Yartar for a short while anyway to get some local intel from the owner of the Lionshield Coster. He's technically an arms dealer.
The doppelganger came this way, and we suspect the giant raid might be part of some wider 'arming up' of a (possibly giant-related) faction in the region.
Arus is assuming this cure resistant disease inflicted on the young lord is some kind of weapon. So it sets off the same alarm bells for him.
Meanwhile, yesterday I ran Secrets of Sokol Keep for a party of five 1st-level bards, members of a single arcane rock band.
It went well. 1st level is still very gruelling and limited but bards seem far less limited. Between their different ranged or melee approach, their different racial traits and spell lists, each PC felt surprisingly unique in play. Being bards they didn't lack for skills, for healing, or for successful attack rolls since they were all giving each other Bardic Inspiration.
So there you go. Same class 1st-level party in 5e is very valid... with bards at least. An all-barbarian party might struggle!
I played Sokol Keep when it first came out. I think that Zeim and I played it at Gencon during the 5e release. It's the Tyranny of Dragons season. It's an interesting mod. NPCs in it come into play in higher level AL mods.
Sounds fun Neil. But yeah, Bards are the most flexible class so they can cover all the key roles in a party at need. Although, any party that includes healing is probably viable while those that do not are in trouble.
For example, 5 clerics would work too. Buffing and healing each other, and at 1st level there isn't that much difference in melee attacks among any pc type.
5 Barbarians (or any fighting class that lacked healing) would eventually wear down, as would 5 Arcane spellcasters. 5 Rogues could have a shot, but likely only if they managed to sneak thru the whole module without too many fights.
Zeim ... you didn't mention Rangers!!! They are decent fighters, have useful skills (when not in a city <wink>) and spell casting including =some= healing ( so carry a couple of potions to take up the slack <weg> )
Except neither Rangers nor Arcane Tricksters get any spells or healing at 1st level, so again unless there is little fighting or they can sneak around and hide all the time, a party consisting of 5 1st level pcs of those classes will eventually wear down.
Only real party of 5 1st level pcs that are all the same class that can thrive must contain a class that gets some sort of healing at 1st level. Bards, Clerics, Druids, even Paladins, but all the other classes will suffer.
Interesting idea, AJ, and thematically a party of fighters could be a squad of city watch or band of knights, etc.
Although I considered pitching the idea of running another adventure with the same characters at 3rd-level, so they'd have their bardic colleges, looking at it more closely I don't think this would change how the game plays significantly. The "game changers" seem to come around 6-8 level for most classes.
Just an FYI, I'm waiting for you all to ask questions in your investigation.
Back to Neil's game. I love the all-bard party. Movies that come to mind: Beatles HELP! as well as Bill and Ted's Great Adventure. There's lots of opportunity for fun!
It was great fun. And you know what, it's the first time ever I've seen a D&D party that made total sense. Everyone had a purpose to be where they were (to play a gig), to be in a party (they were a band), and everyone had their niche even though they were all the same class (because they all had a different position in the band).
Take your time. That takes precedence. We will be here when the world 'takes a breath' and you have a few moments. =I= still keep looking forward to some of them <weg>
I don't know if you'll be interested in this one, but last weekend we playtested Shadow of the Demon Lord (SotDL) by Schwalb Entertainment. I used the official starter adventure, Dark Deeds in Last Hope and I think we all agreed it was a success.
Not as hilarious as our arcane rock-band one-off but definitely more potential for a vari-toned campaign. The darkness of the setting reminds me a lot of The Lord of the Rings and the rise of the Shadow in the East, and ironically I found it makes heroism from the player characters more important, more relevant.
I guess it's like if you were running a game where the players are soldiers. WW2 gives that struggle a clarity of purpose, whereas the War on Terror, for example, would be very murky. Forgotten Realms can often feel murky, with the motives of states and authorities as unclear as the relationships between them.
Anyhoo, SotDL played very well. It's derived from 5e, but noticeable differences are an extremely flexible and holistic class system. More universal, tactical options open to any player with less abilities derived from classes. Simplified target numbers but expanded, deeper use of Advantage and Disadvantage (called Boons and Banes) and a perculiar initiative system that makes all the players look at the combat round ahead at the same time.
I liked the initiative system, the players liked the Boons and Banes. Monsters still aren't as fun to run as they are in 13th Age but are simpler than D&D 5e. (13th Age still stands out to me as the most GM-friendly D&D-derivative I've ever played.)
Actually I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. I enjoyed the character creation process. Easier than 5e but challenging in coming up with a back story that fits.. but that was the fun part and we all ended up with characters that were interesting to play and with life stories that continue potentially. A good buy in to a game.
I have run Shadow of the Demon Lord before 5e came on the scene. I haven't tried the new version. It is a dark and gritty world, very much with a horror vibe. I like it.
It's a challenge to keep separate threads synced-up. Those in the Pipe are a slight bit ahead of the those at the Wink (a few hours in-game). In order to keep things together, I'm going to need to move the "Wink" thread forward at a more rapid pace. Apologies for what may seem to some as somewhat of a rush job there. I hope to move both threads to the morning quickly so that you may sync up again.
I want to be clear that there is no obligation for the players to stick together in the city, at least in this phase of the game. Arus wants to go to find Scimitar Sally, Kriv wants to see the Waterbaron. Sindar might want to check out the dilapidated villa. Bern might be looking for leads about the doppleganger.
Maybe, in a FTF game, I would try to constrain things more, but the PBP format allows a GM to run multiple plot lines. Many are weaved into this game. I hope it makes the game richer. Some objectives are shared by everyone in the party, like learning more about the giants and dealing with the disappearance of the young nobles. But some objectives may be faction related and not shared with other members of the party. Players should not feel like they are chained to each other.
I count on everyone to not metagame and you've been good. Please let me know (by roleplay) what your objectives are.
Before I set everyone on their way, I'm going to allow adjustment of who went where. I kinda nudged things in a direction and I should've not. So, there are 3 choices:
Breakfast for Jaliera, Davroar and Bern was 1 silver. There were other expenses, like drinks and "tips" at the Wing and a Kiss, the place you stayed at in Triboar, if you went out drinking in Triboar, etc. I'll do the tally when I get a chance. This month will be busy.
BTW, that's a general statement. Until after April I am going to be slower. That happens every spring, just before the baseball season starts. I may go a couple of days without posting between now and then.
I used Passive Insight twice this week and since the threads are separate, I decided to share my notes to all of you in one place to explain how I use that.
Wouldn't my character known that?
Maybe.
When my wife and I meet people, she can tell, right away, what the person she meets is like. We might come home from a BBQ (when we did that sort of stuff) and she would say that she didn't trust this person or that or that another person is good as gold. Thing is, over the years, she's NEVER been wrong. She's got a +5 to her insight.
When I meet someone I can't make a decision as quickly as she does but I can tell when someone is being sarcastic, kidding or angry. I think I'm kind of baseline normal. Plus 0.
A kid I coached in Little League had Asbergers Syndrome; a functional form of autism. He had no ability to understand social queues at all so sarcasm, anger and jokes just never clicked. You had to speak to him in absolutes. He had a -5 to insight (and probably had roll with disadvantage!). Think Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory is a good example when he asks "was that sarcasm?". He just doesn't get it.
Passive Insight means that you didn't have to roll. You, the player, may not have insight, but if your character has a good wisdom, your character does. So, if there's a situation that you're getting wrong, your PC might not. So what's the difference between passive and active perception? Active insight would be when an interrogator is trying to determine if a suspect is lying or a gambler guessing that an opponent is bluffing. Passive insight is used when you can 'just tell' something about a situation.
I'll likely pull out my passive insight DM card when one of my posts is misinterpreted.
BTW, there's a Passive Perception too. That is where you notice something rather than search and find something. The latter is an example of Active Perception.
So Nem asked a great question, how much money do I have?
He started at this level (6) and the DMG has a default start table for higher level PCs. For PC's level 5-10 the starting wealth above starting gear is 500 gp plus ldl0 x 25 gold which is 525-750 GP. Nobody in this party has that much, but you should You own a mine and just delivered goods.
Of course, with that, you had to buy equipment and you've been paying for things. I know you've all been ultra thrifty. And hey, maybe you'll want to some more shopping. So it's Christmas in May.
I didn't do it earlier, but let's just say that the party was paid by Gundren and the caravan merchants a tidy sum of 300 gold EACH to guard it. Truth is, some of you, Bern, Jaliera, Davroar and Kriv are actually very wealthy now. You might be playing the miser but you ain't. But you travel light. And you entrusted Luminmorn and Ryssa with your accounting and with the rebuilt manor, which could be your home if you ever decide to settle down in Phandelin. But you would have taken some gold, which is what you left there with.
So add 300 GP to your gold. That's done in Roll20. I'll start some sort of accounting thread to keep this cleaner and I'll take the time to get to a comfortable number to go forward with. I'll come up with something for Arus, Sindar and Zhu shortly, but don't feel too poor.
It seems that we, collectively, have been selling Kriv short. There is a tool proficiency which is a part of the Noble background, which so far over the course of both games has been overlooked, and indeed, was an irrelevance.
'Tis not the DM's job to point these things out, so I shall let you pick your set. But since the rules I put together actually call for you to use them, duh! I'm going to make it even more generic so if you have any gaming tool kit proficiency, it'll work here.
This is a good place for me to invent my gambling rules.
Stake We start with your initial money. Kriv exchanged 150 GP and the rest of you 100 GP. A lot of these bets are 1 GP but alot of the games last a minute or less. The dealers know that the faster they deal, the greater the casino earnings so they are skilled at making that happen. The ship will operate for five hours before docking. There's no way we play 500 games!
Xanthar's guide to everything has some rules around which I will homebrew what we'll do. Their rule was more one-on-one than vs the casino. We have to augment those rules.
Time The cruise is out for 6 hours. We will work with a turn, aka one set of rolls, being 1 hour at a time. Dinner is an hour and I expect each of you to eat. It's expected. Dinner is 2 GP. That means 5 hours of gambling. You are expected to play. If you play one hour, you're in good graces with management.
Skill checks
Your character will make a series of checks, with a DC determined at random every turn (if one-on-one, it's also based on the quality of the competition that your character runs into). Your character makes four checks: Intelligence, Charisma and two Wisdom rolls. If your character has the gaming toolset, add your proficieny total to each except for the last one
First there's intelligence. What moron playing blackjack hits on a 17? True story. In AC on a Friday night. Some guy who was there attending a bachelor party was at a table I was considering joining. He was sitting in the anchor seat. I watch 4 or 5 hands before ever sitting at a table, both to observe the other players and to count cards. The deck wasn't in my favor so I hadn't sat down yet when a broad-chested thuggish guy wearing a gold necklace that could be used as a dog chain, came and sat down at the table. His drunken posse was with him as he slapped $500 worth of chips down. The hand was dealt and the tipsy bachelor party guy hit on a 17 with the dealer showing a 5. He busted when the dealer dealt him a Jack and lost his $10 but then the dealer flipped his cards, revealing a King underneath and promptly drew a 6 and took the $500 from the hulking thug. Security had to get involved but fortunately for the moron that hit on a 17 they were right there. Anyhow, the point is intelligence matters. Forget the idiot that hit on a 17. The thug was stupid for just throwing his money down on a table which he didn't study. I would NEVER sit at a table with the idiot sitting in the anchor seat. The brutish thug deserved to lose his $500.
Roll a 1d20 intelligence check. Add your intelligence modifier to your roll. If you have the toolset proficiency add your proficiency bonus. DC is 2d10+5 which I roll in opposition.
Gambling also requires charisma in games against other opponents. Being able to bluff and keep a straight face are keys to that sort of game. It also helps you influence the actions of others. If you have a good charisma, you're likely to spend time wagering in games that use it rather than pure luck games.
Roll a 1d20 charisma check. If you have intimidation, deception or persuasion skills, roll those skills. If you have the toolset proficiency add your proficiency bonus. DC is 2d10+5 which I roll in opposition.
Wisdom helps you read an opponent, figure out their tells, sneak peeks behind their cards and notice those who're cheating.
Roll a 1d20 wisdom check. If you have perception or insight skills, roll those. If you have the toolset proficiency add your proficiency bonus. DC is 2d10+5 which I roll in opposition.
But wisdom is also about will. Gambling is addictive. Lack of will power is what drains people's pockets. The first rule of gambling is to "quit while you're ahead". Sure, in your mind you're smarter than everyone else and have great self control. My key to winning is to get up when I'm up 25%. Typically I start with $400. Sometimes my night ends after 10 minutes if I get on an early run. If I've made $100 in ten minutes, it's time to go get a really nice dinner with the winnings. Not many can resist the urge to keep playing. Many can't resist the urge to dig deep into their pockets. Wisdom might be the most dangerous roll. It's where you the player says "I'm not risking more than 100 GP" but where I, the DM might say, "The dice tell a different story". You're all going to roll because your in that ultra-tempting environment.
Roll a SECOND 1d20 wisdom check. If you have the toolset, you may NOT use it here. DC is 2d10+5 which I roll in opposition.
If you FAIL the 2nd wisdom roll, you are FORCED into another hour of gaming. If you succeed, you have the option to stop playing for the night.
Gambling Results 0 successes you lose your entire stake. Since you failed your wisdom roll, you MUST dig into your pocket for the next turn in an amount equal to your stake. The ship will let you owe them. 1 success You lose half your stake. 2 successes: You break even. 3 successes: You win half of your stake. 4 successes: You win double your stake.
It's almost that time again, almost a year later, to play in real time. Summer may not be a great time but I would like to offer up Saturday June 26th or Sunday June 27th. I would propose the following times but we have some flexibility:
Great Brittan - 6:00 pm BST Supper
New York/Indiana - 1:00 pm EDT Lunch
Portland Oregon - 10:00 am PDT Brunch
Time zone converter Please respond letting me know if either of those two days work or don't. If we could get everyone together then, it might be fun. I estimate the session would only be 3-4 hours but it would be nice to do again. I would only do this if everyone was participating. It's fine to run that next part here in the forum too but it'll take a month to do.
We would use Roll20, of course, and Discord or Zoom if someone has an account (I no longer do).
I have a Zoom account but have no weekends free until mid Aug. Full to the brim with guests and gaming! It is possible that we could use our FTF SW Zoom account if our host is happy, Neil could sort that!
Hey Mike, you had trouble last time. I realllllly wouldn't want to do this missing anyone. I wouldn't mind doing a setup test with you before the game.
OK, so I think I've found why MikeD had trouble last time.
Roll20 officially only supports the latest version of Firefox or Chrome. Pale Moon probably won't work properly since it uses its own rendering engine.
Zoom web client isn't compatible with Pale Moon, but there is a stand-alone desktop client that is compatible with Windows 7.
Exactly the same for Discord. Web client no to Pale Moon, but there is a stand-alone desktop client that is compatible with Windows 7.
OK. Great. Since Gypsy can't make it and we haven't heard back yet from Pande, we'll continue in forum. There's a post in the main thread for all of you to react to.
Welcome back! How could you EVER think I would boot someone that got ill?
I'll summarize the current thread for you real fast, but you can enjoy the read.
Sindar, Jaliera, Arus, Zhu and Kriv followed a lead and went gambling on a riverboat casino. Inside, Arus found the lady in purple, the one that apparently lured young Lord Artan to his capture. He's the one that you found earlier floating down the river in a cocoon. She communicated with Arus telepathically and after the riverboat docked, she met with the party and indicated that she was forced into luring the young lords. She would bring them into the sewers.
You're there now, in the sewers. Davroar changed into a giant spider and went scouting. The rest of you stopped to look into a control room. Davroar was attacked by an Otyugh and Sindar, Zhu, Arus and Kriv are getting attacked by psionic gray ooze. Sindar rolled for initiative. He's up soon.
Guys, Really sorry about my absence but it's been pretty overwhelming recently. I'm house shopping, settling my mother-in-law into a new home and helping my son out with problems in one of his rental units. I hope to back in the swing of things this weekend.
I would really like to play this out on Roll20 because it's just that kind of thing. I'm going to need to see what are plans shake out to be here. I don't have a return flight yet. Once things solidify here, I'll plan it out. My thinking is that it could be August 1st.
The following weekend is tough because I'm already running one of my face-to-face games the next day (8/8). But Zeim, if you're up for it, we could also play August 7th. I think it'll be a 3-4 hour session with the hours looking like this:
Great Brittan - 6:00 pm BST Supper New York/Indiana - 1:00 pm EDT Lunch Nashville - 12:00 noon CDT Lunch Portland Oregon - 10:00 am PDT Brunch
Like I said, I have to see what my schedule looks like.
I think that I'll put the game on pause temporarily until then. I didn't realize how busy I would be here. That's OK. We've seen about 30 homes and to see those, I've filtered through hundreds.
We put an offer out on a house two days ago and didn't get it, but we were OK with that. We put another offer on a house today and we will be sad if we don't get this one. If we end up buying, we may transition right to selling our current home. A roller-coaster ride is ahead.
Good news is we found a new home! I'll be moving to Boynton Beach in the fall!
A slight issue arose!
I contracted COVID-19 while in Florida. It's likely the Delta-variant because I'm fully vaxed. That's actually good news because if I wasn't vaxed, I would be much sicker. It's like an average flu. I'm about 4 days into this (there's a waiting list for tests here) but I'm already feeling better. My wife's just got sick too and she gets tested on Friday. With quarantine an issue, all of our plans are up in the air. D&D is at the bottom of our list - house inspections, appraisals, insurance, yada yada, are all in doubt, as is travel back to NY. 8/14 is a while from now but we'll see what happens. Anyhow, our FTF session is at risk.
It looks like my schedule is a mess. I am cancelling the FTF (Roll20/Discord) session. I will continue the game in forum. I hope to post soon.
We were supposed to be back home a few days ago. COVID got my wife and I. I was released from quarantine on Thursday. She was released yesterday. I just booked a flight back to New York for next Friday (the 13th of course) and will get home very late. I will need to spend the weekend with my wife trying to get back on track with stuff and I already have a long honey-do list.
On the housing front, we failed to find a place to buy in Florida on this first try. We went to contract on one place but bailed on it after the deep-dive research. Location. Location. Location. There were going to be major issues with the appraisal - the neighborhood didn't merit the price and didn't meet our requirements. We saw 50+ homes and just didn't love anything. About 1 in 10 we liked. While we man not have the patience, we do have the time to do this new home purchase right. My son and daughter-in-law are going to try and see her parents in Canada in September (they've been separated 15 months) so we'll likely house sit for them again at that time and resume our search.
Good luck with your 'lucky flight' <fingers crossed>
As to 'the list' ... best wishes!! I only seem to have 'bad luck' when I have to work with 'the boss' and her 'list' <sigh>
On the FL thing ... be =really= careful ... do some research. The home my parents had in Ft. Myers was torn down (with several others) because it was determined (after several decades of them living there) that the 'land' was 'unsafe' :-/
Thanks Nep. Cancelled in the calendar but if ever you want to pencil a session back in, I'm up for it.
In the meantime you take it nice and easy. When you have a lot on your plate is no time for stuffing your face. That way lies heartburn and indigestion! Nope, slow and steady and try to chew over every mouthful.
A word about rules and why I rely on them. I had a short discussions outside this game and a couple of situations came up in this game, so I feel it's an interesting side discussion to have.
To preface this, anyone that's had long PM roleplaying discussions with me in this game has to admit that I don't eschew roleplaying or plot in lieu of combat. In fact, in SKT this is only the 3rd combat encounter and you've had dozens of non-combat encounters. What you see is that I almost always look for a rule to enforce on all actions. And I admit it. I love the combat component of the game. D&D combat is chess on steroids - much more complicated than 3-D chess. Who here hates board games? Not me! So yeah, I enjoy the challenge and setting up challenges for others.
My experience with system-less games has been that they are more constraining and unbalanced. In one such game I played here, I had a wizard and the GM let me use any spell I wanted. It got to the point where the GM felt the need to tell me to lighten up on the magic because other players were not given equal powers. Rules, hopefully, provide balance. There shouldn't be one player with more capability than others. No player should feel weaker than others. You should all feel that you contribute equally to the game.
I've worked out a few changes to better balance the game. Bern, the ranger, has been upgraded. That's because the vast D&D player community declared the original 5e ranger severely weak compared to other classes. Mike will be using the Unearthed Arcana ranger going forward. It seems like a very similar class until you look under the covers and see that some major constraints were removed. It's a much better, balanced class.
Jaliera has a fear of fire. What does it mean? I loved that Gypsy roleplayed it. But should her reaction to the "scary event" be more severe as the fear spell? The fear spell does have her dash down the hall, away from the source of the event and then slaps the frightened condition on the target. But it allows a saving throw. Shouldn't Jaliera, knowing the situation, struggle to overcome her fear? Does it hold a grip on her forever? No. The Fear spell allows a Wisdom saving throw.
The final in-game example is Davroar's knife use, which is good roleplaying. D&D rules here don't make much sense to me so I'm adjusting. Why should a strength check have a better chance of success than a knife? Alas it is "according to the rules". A knife would do 1d4 damage as an improvised weapon and needs to do 5 points of damage to succeed. You can break free with strength check. Unbalanced. In my mind, the knife makes breaking free of the net easier, as strands are sliced. Therefor, in Davroar's case the knife will gives the player advantage on the strength check.
Also, a knife could use either Str or Dex (as a Finesse Weapon) for its attack. In such a case it would grant a bonus to Damage equal to Davroar's Str/Dex bonus. A 1d4+3 (for a Str/Dex of 16) would roll 5+ points of Damage unless he rolled a natural 1.
Do you have a stat block for a knife? There is none in any of the manuals that I have. It's an improvised weapon and not a finesse weapon. Note that a dagger does piercing damage - not slashing. A knife is not a dagger.
Neptune, I'll take your advice and do the STR check with advantage to escape the net. Now, in order to have the advantage roll should I write my post to say that I am using his 'knife in hand' straining against the netting to break free, rather than taking the time in cutting his way out?
Davroar's STR/DEX bonus is 0 so I can see if the dice roller is unkind that he could be stuck awhile trying to attack the net and do enough damage to it.
Hey Nep, I'm totally onboard with running systemful---is that the opposite term to systemless?? ---either way, I love a good bite of crunch! And I always appreciate it when you spotlight certain rules or interesting applications of rules. I find in message games that mechanics add quite nicely to the form because you're never on the spot like you are at the table. I can mull over the rules, the battlemat, my character sheet and it never interferes with the creative writing/role-playing.
Anyhoo, that's a good call about Bern's class. Tbh I always assumed he was a Revised Ranger from UA18! I've ran quite a lot of 5e D&D by now and never use the corebook Ranger.
Some complain that the UA Ranger is overpowered when combined with core subclasses but that's obviously not the intention of the UA Ranger imo. I think UA Ranger was intended to use the UA subclasses included with UA18: Beast, Hunter and Deep Stalker Conclaves. If you keep it self-contained in that way, it's adequately balanced.
For anyone on the Geek Squad who wants to know more about the differences between the core Ranger and the UA Revised Ranger, here's an article:
Zeim, I'll take that. Can you post the reference to the knife. I didn't find it but it's a good ref.
MikeD, Don't worry. We'll get your sheet updated so you don't have to think about it
Nem, You're right. At the table it's much more difficult and there's lots of pressure. In fact, I'm made it a house-rule that we don't rules-lawyer during the game when I DM. I'll allow about 30 seconds of it, make up my mind, and if I ruled wrong, I'll make it up to a player that got screwed. The DM is god, right? A simple DM alter historical reality cantrip does the trick every time
Dugan, Roll 2 separate twenty sided dice: 1d20,1d20. If either is a 10 or greater, you succeed. Otherwise you are entangled. How you describe it in-character is up to you. Also, that's just 1 action. You still have a move and bonus after, if you can use them.
They don't and they do. You can use the "improvised weapon" stats. I know it's not the same, but
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Sometimes characters don’t have their Weapons and have to Attack with whatever is at hand. An Improvised Weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead Goblin.
Often, an Improvised Weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her Proficiency Bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee Attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.
So literally everything is a weapon. One would think that a knife might be a dagger, but no. Daggers are for stabbing, not slashing. A knife (not a butter knife) is closer to a sickle or a scimitar in use, as they are slashing weapons. I think, for game purposes, if Davroar wants to use his knife as a weapon, we'll treat it like a sickle.
A few things: 1) Since it can only be rolled over 5' tall barriers, I will rule that it cannot be rolled up the wall. However, range 60 means you can create it at the top of the pit. 2) It sheds light, which solves problems for your allies. 3) You may not end up harming any foe but it will keep hostiles away from the pit. 4) It'll mark your location for allies.
All are good things.
Davroar will be able to move it around but he has no idea what's beyond his field of vision. He's used his action for this round so it would need to wait for next round.
Neptune, I was looking at my character sheet and noticed as a level 6 Circle of the Moon druid he has the 'Primal Strike' ability:
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Starting at 6th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non-magical attack and damage.
Does this have to be 'turned on' when I do the shape change or is it a default ability when he changes shape?
The last part of the sentence makes me wonder if being wacked against the side of the stone shaft when he was captured by the Kuo-Tao would not have damaged him at all?
It effects Davroar's attacks not defence. You could emphasise is thusly:
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Starting at 6th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical (for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non-magical attack and damage.)
So if Davroar attacked a werewolf whilst shapechanged, his bear claws would overcome the werewolf's immunity to non-magical attacks from weapons not made of silver.
Some of you may have seen the post elsewhere but there are some changes to SKT.
Aquadyne is going to become a co-GM and Zeim will revert completely to player. The burdens on Zeim in real life are a lot right now and Aquadyne is interested in doing some DMing. With all my craziness in life, I won't have time for a bit to do the game justice. I'm not giving up much of my responsibilities but I am grateful for the assist.
So a question occurred to me I thought I'd post here, mostly for Nep, but others input encouraged.
If you can ready an action in a non-combat setting, such as "Fire an arrow at the first enemy I see in range", why could you not walk around with a readied action constantly? And if you can, does that impact surprise? Does it allow you to go first on the first round of combat, regardless of your initiative roll?
There could be a small negative that depending on your choice of action you may lose some flexibility, such as really wanting to fire at the spell caster among the enemy and not the cannon fodder, but the cannon fodder shows up first, but overall it seems good to do. Or can you not do that?
I don't think it is an action outside of a combat round.
Outside of a combat round "Fire an arrow at the first enemy I see in range" is a hypothetical, I'd say. Any rational archer could say the same, whether they were in a bar, walking down a trail or chatting around a campfire. It only has a mechanical relevance in combat though.
I think it's mechanically relevant that if the character wants to "Fire an arrow at the first enemy I see in range", they will have a bow and arrow in hand. That can save some wasted actions once combat starts. In essence, the character is saying they're "Combat ready".
The 'process' of 'being ready to shoot' means that you have the arrow in the bow and the bow drawn. If you have ever spent time with a bow ... you know that the 'process' of having the bow drawn is =VERY= tiring and is not easily 'maintained' for very long ... at least not with much chance of being able to actually 'make a shot'. So the choice is ... do you wanna be ready to 'fire' (with all the associated penalties based on how long you were 'ready') ... or do you want to be 'prepared' with an arrow knocked, but the bow in a mostly 'relaxed' carry mode??
You can change it to a magical cantrip if it makes it easier. No pulling on bowstrings needed. I can see the point of it being an action that only makes sense in a combat situation, and without looking it up in the Handbook it might even be listed as a "Combat" action, which would resolve the question. But here's a circumstance:
Party enters a dark and dreary cavern which is reputed to be an Ogre's lair. No combat...., yet. Can you have a readied action of "Cast Fire Bolt Cantrip at Ogre as soon as I see him"? We're now no longer talking about days wandering around. It's a setting where combat is very likely, but it hasn't technically begun yet. Party is technically in exploration mode......
OK, looked it up. You can use it in a non-combat setting, typically when you expect combat, such as "I cast a Magic Missile at whoever opens that door". In that case you are expecting combat, but you aren't yet IN combat. Problem with a spell, is a little bit similar to a Bow. You have to "hold" the spell until the trigger occurs, meaning you have to maintain concentration. I suppose it =could= get exhausting to do that for hours, just like trying to hold a bowstring pulled for a long time would be exhausting, but there isn't anything I can see in the rules that prohibit it.
Main penalty that is mentioned over and over is that you use your Action in a round to "Ready" the action (lets say cast all but the final word of the spell and then hold it 'ready' with your concentration), and then you use your Reaction (once the trigger occurs) to cast it (or fire your arrow). So in that case it is taking up BOTH your Action and Reaction to do instead of just your action. However in some cases its worth sacrificing your reaction to do it I think.
If you are traveling overland "readied", it would slow your move significantly. Simply trying to "perceive" slows movement by half.
Inside a dungeon it's assumed that both the party and the enemies are doing their best to not die. I could say "The guards have readied actions" just as you would say about you. That is where surprise rolls come in. If the guards are sitting behind a closed door with their crossbow aimed at the door, that to me is a quasi-combat situation. Note that the reaction of using a readied action comes immediately after the trigger.
In other words, regardless of anyone else's interpretation of the rule, I will move to contain the abuse of the readied action by putting a beholder on the other side of a door with a readied action to disintegrate anyone that it sees as soon as a door is open. In other words, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. You don't want to open up this can of worms.
Well ... Bern is 'ready' (waiting) for another 'target' (he does not think that they all 'ran away' <g>) But ... since he does not have one at the moment, I will let you decide how to treat that <weg>
Gotcha. I'm waiting on Arus. I moved you assuming you were going to try and get to Davroar as fast as you could safely. That meant I executed a double cautious move. (option #2 below). Let me outline the choices you had that didn't involve an immediate attack:
1) Double move (60'), throw caution to the wind, make a DC 10 save to avoid slipping 2) Double move (30'), cautiously, no dex save needed 3) Single move (30'), throw caution to the wind, make a DC 10 save to avoid slipping, Ready your bow 3) Single move (15'), cautiously, no dex save needed, Ready your bow.
Yeah, Nep, actually if we ever run into a Beholder it would be a tremendous advantage for US if you did use the "Ready Action" feature on it, even with a Disintegration Ray (and remember Disintegration is no longer Save or Die, it is just damage now. Lots of damage, but just damage, and it can be countered with Counter-spell, if you have it.).
With Ready Action you forfeit all of your other actions in order to prepare (pre-use) an action that occurs upon a trigger. This means instead of the Beholder getting to use 3 Eye Stalks (including Disintegration if it chose to) and move it's Anti-Magic Central Eye where it wants to, it would be limited to only using the Disintegration Ray for it's whole turn. Huge advantage for us.
Additionally you forfeit your Reaction as that is how you use the Readied Action, so no defensive reactions/magics and no Opportunity Attacks. Again, good for us as it would allow our fighters to run up, stick it with their swords and run away, without risking any Opportunity attack (I am leaving out Legendary Actions here as it just muddies the waters).
Readied Action actually kind of SUCKS. It is not something that can be abused to unbalance the game. It is only useful in a very few specific conditions, such as when an enemy is popping out of complete cover and taking potshots at the party and then ducking back (like the Kuo-Toa here). And you only get a single attack/spell with no ability for OAs, extra attacks, defensive reactions, or changing your mind. When the trigger occurs you have already used your action to Ready your Action so if you don't want to do what you had setup you lose your turn completely.
It is a Last Resort sort of thing that you only do if you have nothing else better to do.
Arus is searching the otyugh's nest. Though that assumes such action is possible. Davroar's fine. If anyone can get out of a hole in the ground it's a druid.
I am assuming that my 'checking the area for threats' and all would have taken my 'action' <shrug>
That's an interesting comment/question. There are two different ways to perceive, active and passive. I would rule that in combat situations, like you are in now, passive perception is in effect. Passive perception is a static value for every PC which is equal to 10 + your wisdom bonus. Bern looking for threats is normal combat activity. Supporting this ruling is how stealth is determined, as you may see shortly. When someone (let's say Jaliera) hides, they make a stealth roll. That result is matched against the passive perception of those she is hiding from. Bern's passive perception is 12. So it the Kuo-Tao made their stealth rolls and rolled less than 12, he would spot them regardless.
Active perception, technically, can result in a worse roll. A roll of 1d20+2 could end up with a result of 3. The way I run that is that your minimum roll would be your passive perception.
However, Bern can barely see. His sight is limited vs these foes who live in the darkness.
On the other hand, Arus is searching deeper. That's an Active Perception roll.
[[ I don't disagree with that 'description' of 'perception' ... except ... there is no 'active' threat ... at the moment <weg> Beyond that, I have no problem with your 'take' on the current situation. But Bern doesn't have anything that seems more important than getting Davroar out of the well at the moment <wink> ]]
Well the main difference, in addition to what Nep wrote, is that "Active" Perception takes an "Action" to use. You are spending your time doing nothing but searching. Passive perception is just your natural ability to notice things, i.e. 'you are walking down the dungeon corridor and the glint of a gold coin lying on the ground catches your eye'. Passive perception doesn't take your action. You could spot the gold coin while you are attacking the Ancient Red Dragon.
Nep is right though, it doesn't make sense for your Active Perception roll to be able to be lower than your Passive Perception.
Thanks Zeim. That was mostly what I was trying to say ... but got lost in the 'details' <g>
Right ... I get a move and an action. So the move was taken and the 'action' was to 'actively' look around ... rather than just 'passively perceive'. I didn't do a good job of saying that, sorry <sigh>
And ... in the end ... the GM is always right <weg>
My pace continues to be sub-optimal (as predicted). Do know how many tasks there are when you buy a new house and sell an old one? I don't but it certainly is hundreds! The current hot task is purchasing home owner's insurance.
BTW, don't let anyone ever tell you that it's cheaper to live in Florida than NY. My house in NT is in one of the highest tax zones in the US. My real estate taxes are very high. However, everything else, I mean EVERYTHING, is more expensive in Florida. If you just add homeowner's insurance to state+local taxes, that already makes Florida more expensive. Tack on dozens of other services that are higher and you soon learn that NY is much more affordable. Car insurance, gas, groceries, HOA fees and almost everything else costs more.
Closing is Nov 10th. Then we prep the old place for sale, marry off our son, an list our house before Xmas. How did I ever hold down a job?
<heh heh heh> that is why I will =never= move again ... 'specially to a 'tourist trap' like FL <weg>
FWIW ... my parents 'retired' there. It was a nice place to visit ... but I never had any desire to move down there!!! For one thing, I like to season changes here in Indiana <weg>
Hope it all works out for you in any event <g> (I am looking forward to the 'updates' on how things are =not= going your way <chuckle>)
IDENTIFYING A MAGIC ITEM Some magic items are indistinguishable from their nonmagical counterparts, whereas other magic items display their magical nature conspicuously. Whatever a magic item's appearance, handling the item is enough to give a character a sense that something is extraordinary about it. Discovering a magic item's properties isn't automatic, however.
The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item's properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item's properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.
Sometimes a magic item carries a clue to its properties. The command word to activate a ring might be etched in tiny letters inside it, or a feathered design might suggest that it's a ring of feather falling.
Wearing or experimenting with an item can also offer hints about its properties. For example, if a character puts on a ring of jumping, you could say, "Your steps fee strangely springy." Perhaps the character then jumps up and down to see what happens. You then say the character jumps unexpectedly high.
My son gets married tomorrow. We've got the rehearsal dinner and our day tomorrow starts at 8am. Figure that I'm out until Sunday. Aquadyne, please hold on before letting the party move forward.
Topic #1 - Some notes on dropping, falling, sliding, etc.
Rules are generalizations. Simply put, the ruling about speed of climbing down a rope, being lowered, climbing down the rungs will stick.
Jumping down, as Kriv indicates, is an athletic type of move, isn't it? Let's examine the athletics check rule:
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Strength checks. Athletics. Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations while c1imbing, jumping. or swimming. Examples include the following activities:
You attempt lo climb a sheer or slippery cliff, avoid hazards while scaling a wall, or cling to a surface while something is trying to knock you off.
You try lo jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt midjump.
You struggle to swim or stay afloat in treacherous currents, storm-tossed waves, or areas of thick seaweed. Or another creature tries to push or pull you underwater or otherwise interfere with your swimming.
It might also be considered an acrobatics check:
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Dexterity checks. A Dexterity check can model any attempt to move nimbly, quickly, or quietly, or to keep from falling on tricky footing. The Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth skills reflect aptitude in certain kinds of Dexterity checks. Acrobatics. Your Dexterity (Acrobatics) check covers your attempt to stay on your feet in a tricky situation, such as when you're trying to run across a sheet of ice, balance on a tightrope, or stay upright on a rocking ship's deck. The DM might also call for a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to see if you can perform acrobatic stunts, including dives, rolls, somersaults, and flips.
MikeD's statement about speed of sliding...
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Not to be a 'nudge' ... but I can certainly 'slide down a rope' a =LOT= faster than I can climb down a ladder <weg>
as well as the move described by AJ for Kriv...
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OOC: How much fall damage from a deliberate drop, by the by?
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[OOC: Half-tempted to just go for a superhero landing from ten feet down and bonus action second wind away the fall damage and the damage taken earlier.]
Based on the task (since I crushed my elbow as a 12 year old from a 20 foot I-tried-to-slide-down-a-rope stunt and permanently lost all radial motion in my right arm), I consider this to be a "hard" task and using that your DC would be a 20 based on the following table: TYPICAL DCs
Code
Task DC
Very easy 5
Easy 10
Moderate 15
Hard 20
Very hard 25
Nearly impossible 30
Sliding down, jumping down, yada, yada, all would require the athletic or dexterity check. If you try a heroic move (you are heroes, right?), this is how I would rule. Succeed on the check and you land unscathed. Fail on the check and take 3d6 damage. So Kriv, who has +4 to his Athletics skill and Bern who has a +5 to his, would probably opt to make an Athletics skill. Yes, I'll give the player the option of which to use.
Topic #2 - Running this encounter I want to encourage everyone to participate. That includes Aquadyne, who is doing a great job of learning how DM and the 5th edition of D&D. But note that all rulings are going to be mine. Aquadyne is learning the game and made an important statement that I want to underscore:
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Nep will ultimately deal with this...
. All rolls will be done at my request. This is a very complex situation made more complex by the way you all handled the first 3 encounters. Aqua's comments are totally encouraged but players need to take care to make sure I agree with things he might state that "sound" like rulings. They are really rule probes and his interpretation of what I've pointed him to. I encourage him to continue and for you all to discuss them.
I'll try and summarize what the party's actions are.
Topic #3 - Pandemonium We are still missing Pandemonium and so I'll talk to Aquadyne about ghosting for him in the meantime.
[[ Nep, just don't let your personal experiences from your past cloud your judgement here <gd&r lmao>
As a former 'rock climber' ... going =down= a rope is a =relatively= easy task ... =if= you had just a little training. And I would think that many/most/all 'adventurers' would have some experience with using ropes <vbg> Soooo ... is there something in particular that makes the decent by rope here 'hard' rather than 'moderate'?? ]]
I would like to return, if that is an option, now that I can think a bit more. It is literally amazing how much stuff you just don't do when you are suffering.
I think I remember my name. The rest of the stuff, I will have to read and catch up which could take a moment.
Yesterday was great! It was the first "trash day" following Christmas and it didn't rain. Everyone in the neighborhood that celebrated Christmas threw away the boxes that their gifts came in. I drove around town and saved myself about $50 that I would have needed to spend on boxes. I'm very proud of myself for dumpster-diving to save a few bucks after conducting 6-figure transactions these past few months. It seems like a trifle, but now that I'm living off a fixed income, every $50 I save means that I can play another round of golf later
My wife is starting to sell everything in the house on Facebook Marketplace and eBay. The décor of the new home is completely different from the one we're moving from so we decided to not bring any of the furniture. Why pay to move it? So armoires, desks, tables, sofas, etc. are starting to move. This is not happening at a pace that gives me much of a break. Every time I seem to sit down to compose a post, my wife says something akin to "Someone's coming for the dresser. We have to empty it now!" That phase becomes a signal for me to crate up the contents. That leads to wrapping and stowing.
You're allowed to make any decision you like, but that is not going by the rules of the game. What happened to being a RAW DM?
Redirecting this response here rather than the game thread, because it's pushed my buttons and I can't not reply to this. Whether this reply is helpful or not can be discussed later, but I just wanted to offer some points from my relatively newbish perspective based on very little actual experience with this specific system but many years of experience in general story/plot/RP/keeping-players-happy.
1. I have joined into this game wanting to help, but the frequent "rules lawyering" is actually starting to scare me away. I completely respect your experience with this specific system and know that technically you'd probably be right in the overwhelming majority of disagreements. While Nep has the experience and backbone to shut this stuff down, I know with my limited experience in the 5e system I would not want to face these types of challenges from a player. I'm hoping to try to run the next major campaign in this overall scenario and I don't want to deal with challenges like this. The whole point of this game is collaborative, not competitive. Please consider this a personal request to not challenge me in the same way you're challenging Nep.
2. I know enough of the behind-the-scenes of this scenario to know that if this was run 100% by-the-book the whole party would die. Swiftly. You might already be dead. There are specific "hold back" types of actions happening behind the scenes to try to achieve a delicate balance. Nep and I have discussed what will happen and we each have our own opinions, but I actually agree with him on this and actually proposed a more strict enforcement of "book rules" on the descent than the one he has proposed. Be happy you're dealing with him and not me.
3. Related to #2 above: I'm going to be trying to run the next major campaign, and if a similar "run it by the book" challenge is made, you can expect full "by the book" consequences without any DM intervention to try to, you know, keep the party alive and enjoying the storyline. May the odds be ever in your favor if you choose that route.
Aqua, No need to intervene between me and Zeim. This debate has ensued for over 4 decades between us. And please don't ruin my hard-earned designation as an evil DM by letting them know how much of a softie I really am
Be aware, Aqua, I would never challenge you the way I challenge Nep. As he said, we've had this same discussion (in different variations) since the 1970's.
...and here's the initiation of our arguing over rules (and the start of Neptune's reputation as "Evil DM").
Nep was our first DM. My first pc was a 1st level Elven Wizard. We were playing using the original Chainmail set of rules in 1977 as well as added info from Dragon Magazine. We were walking thru a dungeon and my Wizard opened a random door to reveal a 10x10 room with no windows and no other exits. Inside was a Glass Goblin, sitting in a chair (don't even know that such a creature still exists).
As soon as the door opened the Goblin smashed a Fireball globe into the floor which exploded, filled the room with flames, which also spilled out into the hallway, frying my Wizard to a crisp. The Fireball also fried the Goblin, who committed suicide to kill my Wizard.
We argued about the logic of that back in 1977 and have been continuing those 'discussions' ever since.
Rules are meant to facilitate the fun. How that happens and to what extent is very different for each group down to each player.
I joined this set of games to get a feel for 5e. I have played since the chain mail days and the land of 3 brown books. I might even have my first 3 brown ratty brown books. For me this journey started in 1976. I still play an active Adnd game because the GM said and I quote "I am too lazy to learn newer editions."
If you glance and games I run you can see that my games the rules take a big back seat to story but that works for the stories I try to tell. Each to their own including long standing arguments just because they are fun too.
Oh and to be clear I am not trying to kill your character in my game. At least not yet.
As Aquadyne will attest to (and all of you too), the story does not take a back seat in this game. Similarly, neither do the combat strategy or tactics. That's because no two players are exactly the same. They have different interests and style preferences. I try to satisfy the tactical players as well as those who want to dive into the plot.
For what it's worth, getting involved in this has reawakened my desire to play more of these things as a player, possibly at a local tabletop gaming place.
It's been far too long!
As I've mentioned to Nep, I started out with the dice system games but moved more toward "story-based" free-form games... but there's a tendency to get too involved in story/choices and ignore randomness. All in all I think it's good to have both perspectives. I still think I do better as a behind-the-scenes facilitator but I think I'd also enjoy playing a bit too, now that I've realized what I have been missing
Go for it Aqua! FTF is so much more fulfilling and exciting, as long as you keep COVID in mind. DL is wonderful, don't misunderstand my point, especially as I have no FTF options, but the comradery and excitement of physically rolling dice across the table can't be beat.
Zeim, I think our Roll20 games have kept our FTF games going. No, it's not the same as sitting at the table together, but it does a fair job none-the-less. In the Roll20 game I'm running for my sons and their friends we are moving tokens on Roll20 but rolling dice on the table.
Hopefully COVID will be an afterthought in a year and FTF can be an option again.
I think DL also contributed to our FTF game surviving. Being able to continue to play RPGs, even in a messaging system, gave us incentive to figure out how we could adapt our FTF game. It would have been very easy to just give up when the technology was crude, but DL kept us trying to figure it out.
A quick heads-up for everyone. Today and tomorrow I'm packing up my car and then I'm driving to Florida over 3 days starting on Thursday. Once I set out I don't expect to post until I get there and unload my SUV.
Both have their 'strengths'. Here I can take some time to think about what I had just read ... and what my character should do. But it is a lot of fun to sit around a table with friends and things can move much faster <g>
I love every aspect of gaming, from playing at a table to using more immediate electronic means such as a Google Doc (where a few of us all type at once, and chat over voice), Roll20, and of course our beloved DL.
I find that playing here actually is both simultaneously easier and harder as I want to write a more crafted story, yet find myself with limited time trying to squeeze in posts here or there.
The one advantage of gaming at a table is all of us are dedicated to that moment in time. Though it has been a very long time since I have had a regular group to share it with.
So as Nep mentioned in the game thread, in relation to breaking thru doors and windows, D&D has a system where those types of items have an AC and HPs and to break thru them you attack them and do enough physical damage to break them.
We were playing in a D&D Tournament several years ago at Gencon. A tournament has numerous DMs who run the same game for numerous parties of players. Everything you do is assigned points and whoever gains the most points wins.
We started the game inside an inn and the inn became under assault. Our mission (as I recall) was to save as many of the townspeople who were in the inn as possible. The assault was coming thru the front door and the only other exit was a window toward the rear. That window was barred.
My pc was a Wizard (this was D&D 4.0 btw). One of his spells fired a spray of Acid. I told the DM I was going to fire the Acid Spray at the metal bars in the window to weaken them so the fighters could break thru them more easily.
The DM paused. Looked at his notes. Paused again, then left the table to go talk to the supervisor. Eventually he came back and said I couldn't do it. He had no way to determine what a spray of Acid would do as far as weakening the bars to make them easier to break thru and no one else had ever tried to do that so they had no precedence.
Naturally my group protested as it seemed like there should be some sort of effect, but we got nowhere.
<heh heh heh> I ran tables for =years= at GenCon when it was in Indiana. As I remember it (but I should point out I am getting old and my brain could be failing me) that while the players could come up with some =interesting= ideas, the GM did have =some= 'latitude' resolving that sort of thing.
Having said all that ... I can understand how a GM =might= decide that 'a bit of acid' would not have any 'useful' effect (in game terms) ... since it would take hours ... if not days ... for acid to 'dissolve' metal bars <shrug> Depending on circumstances ... I =might= have let something like that work ... but no guarantees <wink>
The way I would have handled it is to give the bars hit points and AC. Metal, being vulnerable to acid, would take double damage. However, if the bars had an AC equal to plate armor and had 200 hit points, then Zeim would have likely said, "OK, not worth the effort" based upon those attributes.
Note those of you who remember 1st edition will recall that a strength attribute was a bend bars/lift gates percent. So the idea that it's doable came from Gary Gygax himself.
Oh, and that entire "championship" was a disaster. The objective was a timed effort to save as many people as possible from streams of flowing lava. Out "people" were magnets and we lost lots of time trying to herd magnets that wouldn't behave right. None of the other DMs there had magnetic people. It was a joke.
So we're playing in a game at Gencon. Not a tournament this time I believe. Neptune was playing Lingo, a Halfling Rogue, and I was playing a Tiefling Warlock. In any case after working our way thru the session we finally run into the big bad dude, a Demon/Devil type. One of the first things he does is Dominate Lingo and take control of him. On my pcs turn I cast Banishment and he fails his save and is banished back to the Hells.
However the DM ruled that his control of Lingo extended across planes. The rest of the story is about how rules lawyers can make the game fun too.
So the rules stated that Lingo was controlled until he succeeded at a Saving Throw. He'd already failed his chance and the only way for him to make additional Saves was that each time he took damage he could make another Save attempt.
So, the Cleric cast Hold Person on him so he couldn't harm us as the Devil was remotely trying to make him do. We then tied him up and the party lined up and took turns punching him in the face. Each time he was punched he took a minimal amount of damage, but he got to make a save. It actually went on for quite some time before he broke free. Neptune was not rolling well that day!
That was not a championship game but it was an Adventurer's League "Epic" module. Those were not played in stores - only at conventions with multiple tables participating in the same adventure in different ways. I would guess about 1000 people partook in this one event. Our table handled things in a unique way
Question for my own education on water level and breathing.
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Translate quickly to being 5' per round. By the time we get around to this initiative order next round everyone will be submerged.
1. If someone is six feet tall, and water rises five feet, is their head above water for one more round so they can breathe? Or are we playing the "everyone of normal size fits into a 5' x 5' x 5' cube" so they are indeed under water?
2. Is it possible to stand on someone's shoulders to stay above water, e.g., could I spend my move hopping on the back of a Triton to elevate myself above the water line? It might only last one more round at the current inflow rate but just wondering if that'd matter?
3. Why did nobody in the party learn the Air Bubble spell?
Aqua - Someone should be able to climb (for a time) and stay ahead of the rising water. Possible the walls, the ladder, the rope, etc. If I was DM I am not sure I'd let you climb onto the shoulders of another pc (very unstable). Also, Air Bubble is not a spell in standard 5e. It's a Homebrew spell.
Actually, every single character in this group can cast spells. Many of you just don't. And Zeim's right about that one spell.
Also, it's not a matter of surviving one round. The chamber will continue to fill so standing on the shoulders of another isn't very consequential. In 2 rounds it'll be 10' deep. As a DM I would just snicker at how players that are doing that are playing right into their foe's strategy.
Important to note that unless you're wearing heavy armor or choose to stay down on the floor (which may be a better place to be, presuming Water Breathing) the pcs should naturally float on top of the water. That means with the water rising 5' per round, pcs will begin to float and the water will not start covering their heads unless they want it to. Most pcs should not have a drowning issue for 6 rounds.
Moving this to OOC to try to not continue to clutter the game thread:
They tried to gather all of the Skills together into categories in order to eliminate the proliferation that had happened in 3.5+ Swim is part of Athletics. Here are the relevant lines from the Rules:
Athletics Check (determining when it is needed when Swimming)- You struggle to swim or stay afloat in treacherous currents, storm-tossed waves, or areas of thick seaweed. Or another creature tries to push or pull you underwater or otherwise interfere with your swimming.
Bolding is mine, but note that it calls out dangerous currents and other situations where swimming or floating would be difficult.
In this case I suppose it could be ruled that the chamber filling with water is creating 'Dangerous Currents' <shrug>.
Other part about a Swimming Athletics check:
- At the DM’s option, climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with few handholds requires a successful Strength (Athletics) check. Similarly, gaining any distance in rough water might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check.”
Note the specification about needing an Athletics check to "gain any distance (i.e. move)", implying that a check is not needed if you don't want to move. Taken together, these rules strongly imply that simply floating in water (if not encumbered) does not require a check.
Of course, the key comment "At the DMs option". So, in the end, all up to Nep and Aqua of course.
I've moved a lot of the OOC here and respond at the end.
Quote
Posted By: Zeim Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Wed Feb 02 2022 03:46 PM (OOC - Nice catch Aqua. I had read quickly and thought it referred to foes she was moving away from. So I edited Zhu's turn (taking back the Aganazzar's Scorcher spell as she can't cast it if she drinks the potion) and changed her position on the Roll20 map and which Kuo-toa she is trying to charm. She drank the potion to make things simpler, however as I pointed out above, it really shouldn't matter if the water in the room is 2 feet, 6.5 feet, 10 feet, or 20 feet. She would be floating on top as it rises unless she chose to dive down. It would only be when the water completely fills the room to it's ceiling that there would not be a floating option.)
Posted By: AquaDyne Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Wed Feb 02 2022 04:19 PM (OOC - if I were DM, I’d only allow drinking one handed whilst treading water with a weapon in the other hand with a Dex check. But I like the simplicity of feet on the ground.) Posted By: ZeimRe: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Wed Feb 02 2022 04:27 PM Yeah, she doesn't use weapons so both hands are free. I like simplicity too, but if the situation is going to involve water combat it has become a 3D model and will be quite complicated.
Posted By: Neptune Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Wed Feb 02 2022 05:29 PM Quote She would be floating on top as it rises unless she chose to dive down. OOC: If she didn't drink a potion, she would need to make a strength check to swim. I really wish that was a "skill" again. How do you fail today and succeed tomorrow when swimming?
Posted By: Zeim Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Wed Feb 02 2022 05:34 PM (OOC - Not sure about that. It doesn't state in the rules you need to know how to swim to float, only if you try to move while in, or under, water. If you're wearing armour then there's a strength check to not sink, yes, but in general if all you want to do is float and not move, I don't believe any check is required.)
Posted By: MikeD Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Wed Feb 02 2022 07:28 PM [[ FWIW - I miss 'swim' as a skill as well <sigh> ]]
Posted By: AquaDyne Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Thu Feb 03 2022 12:07 AM [[OOC I think Sindar is up next. Is Zeim's move Zhu's turn resolved at this point with whichever new targets?]]
Posted By: Zeim Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Thu Feb 03 2022 12:55 AM (OOC - It is for me? Was that question for Nep?)
Posted By: Zeim Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Thu Feb 03 2022 02:22 PM (OOC - Aqua, in case you weren't aware, if Sindar moves like that he will take Opportunity attacks from both Kuo-toa who started next to him. Zhu teleported, which does not allow an OA by enemies. If he is OK with taking those 2 attacks then that's cool.)
Posted By: AquaDyne Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Thu Feb 03 2022 02:53 PM Oops. Well if it was me, I’d keep it with the dice luck I appear to have, and may save more attacks later… but being that I’m ghosting I should probably just stand still.
Posted By: Zeim Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Thu Feb 03 2022 03:13 PM (OOC - You can still do the rest, ie drink the potion and cast the Healing Word.)
Posted By: AquaDyne Re: 3H - Second night in Yartar - Thu Feb 03 2022 05:35 PM [[ Post edited to not move. Also I was confused about healing word when it consumed a spell slot, and should not have cast it, so I'm taking that back too. ]]
Although it's irrelevant right now, I'll provide my ruling. My next post will explain why it's irrelevent.
For future reference, I agree ... to a point. I will rule, that any somatic spell requirement, and any attack, interferes with your ability to "float". It would require an athletic check, which you cannot do if you have used your action. A nice catch-22. My pool heater is being installed Monday. After I get the temperature adjusted, I'll test out my theory.
BTW, are you wearing armor? Carrying weight like a backpack? I kinda doubt you're bouyant.
Yes, the swimming rules were amended to allow everyone to swim. If 3 members of the party couldn't swim, the party would be split and 3 players wouldn't be able to survive.
Oh, in advance of needing it, here's another ruling via Jeremy Crawford:
@JeremyECrawford: If you're knocked prone underwater, you're subjected to the effects of the prone condition as normal. One way to visualize it is that you're floundering. #DnD
Aqua - Note on your edit, you CAN still do the Healing on Kriv, along with everything else in your post. Healing Word is a Bonus Action, with a range far enough to cover Kriv, and does not interfere with your action of drinking the potion.
Nep - Just an FYI, I have taken BSA Lifesaving courses where you were required to tread water using only your feet (you had to hold both hands above your head) for 5 minutes. So you do not need your hands, UNLESS you are encumbered and have to make the Athletics check.
People don't understand how bouyant a person is. Unless you are weighed down with armour and heavy equipment it is literally impossible to drown, unless you panic or are in rough water.
Thus "Panic". There is no need to thrash, People don't realize that if they simply stay still and use some minimal foot/hand movement they will naturally float for a really long time before they are in any danger.
You are not in a bathing suit. According to your sheet, Zhu is carrying 30 lbs. She weighs 115 lbs. When I went diving, as a "very buoyant" person that weighs well over double what Zhu weighs (shhhhh), I needed 25 pounds in weights to combat buoyancy. The typical measure of weights to oppose body weight is 10%. So for Zhu it's 11.5 pounds.
Oh, I agree. The point is that as the water closes in there is a buoyancy factor that will help you. You are not a rock. I have no problem with an Athletics check since we are carrying stuff.
It is interesting that muscular people have a harder time floating than overweight people as fat floats but muscles are denser.
It seems that we agree on the science and how to play it:
Quote
"For future reference, I agree ... to a point. I will rule, that any somatic spell requirement, and any attack, interferes with your ability to "float". It would require an athletic check, which you cannot do if you have used your action. A nice catch-22.
I'll accept the caveat of "if your equipment weight is more than 10% of your body weight"
Posted By: AquaDyne- Fri Feb 04 2022 04:25 PM Originally Posted by Neptune Aqua- I don't know what your save before was for. I was going to ask. Because in this post you said: Quote OOC: Translate quickly to being 5' per round. By the time we get around to this initiative order next round everyone will be submerged. When your turn comes up, please, everyone make a constitution save. This one is against disease. Arus and Jaliera need not. This seems very similar to Quote I also need Con saves (DC 14) from all of you. Making that save means you didn't swallow water. If you did swallow water, you will be vomiting shortly. We'll call this a "disease" so Arus is immune. So I am confirming that the save against disease that Sindar already rolled meets this requirement.
Zhu also rolled (and failed) a con save in this post per your previous instructions, but now that you've clarified the "swallowing water" intermediate step leading to the disease, that brings up the question of whether water breathing potion prevents swallowing water and avoids the need to roll at all. Posted By: Zeim- Fri Feb 04 2022 05:14 PM (OOC - It could go either way here, although I would think a ruling that the Magic of the Water Breathing potion protects you from harmful contents of ingesting that water is not unreasonable.) Posted By: AquaDyne- Fri Feb 04 2022 06:13 PM (OOC - while Nep is ruling on that he can also tell us whether we can cast verbal spells under water.) Posted By: Zeim- Fri Feb 04 2022 06:47 PM (OOC - Yes. That is answered definitely by Jeremy Crawford. If you have Water Breathing no issues. If not, you get to cast one spell and then you begin drowning as you will ingest water to do it.)
Usually when I ask for that in advance, I'll remind you on your turn. If it's immediate, I ask for it immediately. I guess I wasn't clear. If there's a chance the situation is mitigated or eliminated, you shouldn't provide advance rolls. For instance, if the flow was stopped, the pools magically drained or someone starts flying, the roll isn't needed.
As for spellcasting under water, it works - even verbal, as per Jeremy E. crawford.
Water breathing potion does NOT prevent you from ingesting the harmful water. Being submerged in this water means you need to make the save.
Please post rule discussions, questions and the like here, not in the main thread. It gets difficult to track things.
(OOC - Nep - Yes, I think that thinking 3-dimensionally, the snake could be positioned vertically and really only take up 1 square at the top. Perhaps 3X3 horizontally at the bottom of the pool and then its head stretching upwards. BTW, presuming Zhu is still alive when its her turn again what do I need to do to account for the 3D effect of creature placement for spells that are Rays/Lines? Creatures on the map are depicted in a 2D view.)
Moving all these to the OOC thread. I need to unclutter the game thread. You can tell me your plan and I'll work with you but we're not taking out protractors or 3D modeling apps.
Neptune, I have no problem with setting the crabs initiative as you have suggested since they are still alive at the moment. At the time that I posted for changing into the giant snake I was going by the previous map in post #1025837 and thought I had plenty of room. In any case I have no issue with how you have arrange the display of Davroar's token. Thanks.
It would be easy enough to slip out, but why not try and cook them first? They both utter their prayers and call forth flame from above to roast the crabs.
Fire + water + crabs = steamed crab legs. Mmmmmmmm!
Sorry guys. It's been a very hectic few days. My son AND my brother came to stay at our house because we were hosting a baby shower for my other son and his wife Saturday and then Sunday was the Superbowl which, of course we had to handle and yesterday I had an inspection of my pool heater which failed because permits were missing for the electrical and plumbing work, had repair men coming to fix a coolant leak for my brand new heater, had to drive my brother and his wife to the airport, had to be here for the pool guy that had to repair pipe seals that were undone, etc. It was just 3 or 4 days of blur!
Anyhow, I owe apologies for "rushing" my posts. Dugan, when your crabs "orient" themselves as a result of being prone, they use half their movement and can act, meaning, attack. So if you so choose (I don't know why you wouldn't want to) you may move 1/2 their moves attack for the ones that stood up.
Aqua - Note on your edit, you CAN still do the Healing on Kriv, along with everything else in your post. Healing Word is a Bonus Action, with a range far enough to cover Kriv, and does not interfere with your action of drinking the potion.
A little slow on responding to this from 2 weeks ago. Yes, I could have. However, I'm attempting to follow pre-set rules for ghosting, and when I cast it didn't realize it was a "once per day" thing.
Were I playing for myself I'd have sucked up the mistake as a lesson learned. But since I'm just filling in I should not have done that.
Related, if the party wants Sindar to attack someone/thing on his next turn, he'd probably do so, because left to decide for himself he'll probably just get pissed at whoever stabbed him in the groin (ouch).
Neptune, I was not sure of the ruling with the crabs being prone if they could attack or not in the same round. I will definitely have the four attack.
BTW, starting with Zhu's turn next round everyone is completely under water unless you do something to NOT be under water. And in 2 more rounds the entire chamber will be filled with no air above.
I'll take this as permission to continue ghosting. As for the healing, it can also be used to revive someone who's unconscious at 0 HP, possibly a better use of it particularly if the "mostly dead" person is rather important to storming the castle.
Maybe I'll ask Nep if I can make one of the NPCs in the next phase I'm helping create a PC that can join up. Could the party stand two bards? We could sing duets...
OOC: Sorry. Hate to burst that bubble, but you need to roll to hit twice more. The first d20 will be for that crit. The second for that second hit. You see, you have disadvantage for using a range magic spell against an adjacent target.
I don't understand what I need to roll.
Also as I understand the disadvantage for range against adjacent target is for weapons but not for spells.
OK, I see it now. Eldritch blast specifies "ranged attack" in the description. I'm rather annoyed that Roll20 automatically picked melee spell attack. That's gotta be a bug.
...or use Vicious Mockery, which while it's a range cantrip, it requires a saving throw and that isn't done with any advantage. I rule that it works under water. "Blloobllop blo bllooo ooobblob!"
I know we are playing a higher level than in LMP but is it just me or is Arus way more powerful than Chandan?
Nep, Zeim, is that a paladin vs monk thing in 5e? I recall reading that a Four Elements monk was probably the weakest subclass for monk but Arus seems leagues ahead in a fight and afaik Conqueror paladin isn't even considered the most powerful subclass. Would you say monks are on the weaker end of the spectrum in 5e?
Yes. PHB Monk and PHB Ranger are generally considered two of the weaker classes. They tweaked Ranger to bump it up and I think they did now for Monk too.
Just as an FYI, based on conversations at Gencon those who like to Min-Max seemed to agree one of the best was a Multi-class Paladin/Warlock.
Oh and Aqua, if Nep allows you to do so, once I get my junk together again... I could bring back Lumi and you could take over Sindar, that would be fine with me, as long as I am not going to cramp Nem's style?
...Well...., since Zhu is close to dropping..., Jaliera has vanished, and Bern is charmed, um, right now would be a fantastic time for Lumi to make a dramatic appearance <g>!
I think that Pande, you keep playing Sindar and let's make that cut-over happen now.
AquaDyne is going to DM shortly after this encounter. I felt that letting him run this encounter as his first toe-dip into DMing was cruel. This is about as complicated an encounter as there can be.
I played with a group for a long time that called each gaming session The Savage Beatdown. Routinely we had TPKs because that was how that particular GM liked to run, so character death is not a new thing for me. Would I prefer that the character lives? Of course, but I have learned the hard way that the dice can be a fickle mistress.
Aqua - I agree with you. If you're going to die, a heroic death, saving the party or a group of people is a worthwhile end. A random death, or worse an arbitrary one, is very discouraging.
I was pondering the other day with some friends that games like 13th Age, that build the campaign around the player characters, making killing them off bloody difficult.
It'd be like if you got to Return of the Jedi and Luke crashes his speederbike into a tree and dies. Meanwhile, Vader's standing there waiting to take his son to the Emperor. Ooops! How does the GM course correct that!?
There's also the balance of effort vs. benefit. When one spends a lot of time building a character sheet, background, hooks, goals, etc. it's no fun if they get offed at level 1.
.... and using that logic it is even worse as they get to higher levels as even more time and emotion is invested. I'd rather have my 1st level pc, that I've played a couple of months, die, than my 7th level pc that I've played for several years.
Nem - Yes, that is an issue for the DM indeed. You either have to come up with creative/dramatic/inventive circumstance to mitigate it, such as fudging dice rolls or having some unknown "Force" power reveal itself to save him, or you have to go the route Wolf does in his world where the pcs are no more important to the world than the NPCs are (and in many cases less important). Luke dies and so suddenly Vader pivots to trying to convert Leia to the Dark Side or some other previously unknown bastard sibling shows up.
When we were 'table topping' ... character death was (almost) never permanent. At higher levels our cleric could fix that. At lower, we would 'go into town' and get some help ... for some coin <chuckle>
BTW, Aqua, I think at one point when you were discussing casting Healing Word for Sindar you said something about not wanting to use the spell since he only gets it once per day? Unless he has cast all of his 1st level spells already and only has a single 1st level spell slot left that is not how spellcasting works in 5e.
Basically he chooses a pool of spells each day (memorized) from which he can pick and choose to use his spell slots on. So if he chose four 1st level spells he could cast each of them once, 2 of them twice, or 1 of them 4 times up to the limit of his slots. He isn't limited to having to cast each spell on his list.
We seldom had more than one ... occasionally two ... 'deaths' in any encounter <shrug> But ... in the end ... as long as we were having a good time ... it didn't really matter <wink>
BTW, Aqua, I think at one point when you were discussing casting Healing Word for Sindar you said something about not wanting to use the spell since he only gets it once per day? Unless he has cast all of his 1st level spells already and only has a single 1st level spell slot left that is not how spellcasting works in 5e.
Basically he chooses a pool of spells each day (memorized) from which he can pick and choose to use his spell slots on. So if he chose four 1st level spells he could cast each of them once, 2 of them twice, or 1 of them 4 times up to the limit of his slots. He isn't limited to having to cast each spell on his list.
Fair enough and the source of my confusion.
Going back to the point where, if I'm playing someone else I'm not going to start getting creative with trying to balance a limited resource. I'll do the basic/obvious/what the party suggests. While it may have seemed I was playing the character, in fact I was just being creative in describing what an unplayed character on autopilot was doing.
While I'm happy to discuss joining this campaign in the future, it's going to be after the next plot arc and likely something I'll figure out on my own if I can fit it into the plot.
Nep - So the rules image you shared says you start with Breath Points equal to your Con Modifier X10, with a Minimum of 5 (for people who have no Con modifier I suppose). Meaning if you have a Con modifier of say +2 for a 14 Con that you start with 20 Breath points?
Yes and thanks for identifying a mistake I made. If your CON bonus is 0 you start with 5. If your CON bonus is +1 you start with 10. If your CON bonus is +2 you start with 20. If your CON bonus is +3 you start with 30. If your CON bonus is +4 you start with 40.
The constrictor snake is +1 so he starts with 10 and since it's the start of his turn, he has 9 now.
Interesting to think if Sindar hadn't drunk the potion but committed to swimming/floating, he'd keep his 10 breath points for a few turns, and be floated/forced vertically out of melee range of the submerged KT, thus avoiding the opportunity attack.
Can I 'stand up' removing Davroar's prone status and attempt to constrict Oosith? If Davroar is successful with a constriction, can others still hit Oosith without hitting Davroar? Question to other players: Or should I just try and kill KT2 (or KTM?) to reduce number of attackers?
From a Meta-gaming standpoint it is always best to "concentrate fire" on the most dangerous opponent. On the downside, it will make some AOE spells unusable without hitting Davroar. However making Oosith's attacks have Disadvantage and giving everyone Advantage to hit Oosith is a really good effect.
Neptune would have to give a ruling on whether Oosith could be hit without hitting Davroar.
Oosith the aboleth Attacks Davroar the snake with 3 tentacle attacks (no disadvantage because of effective flanking) Neptune rolled 1d20+9,2d6+5,1d20+9,2d6+5,1d20+9,2d6+5 and got 20, 13, 23, 17, 25, 11
Oosith 3 tentacles attacks totals 13+17+11 = 41
Your latest update shows Davroar's snake form at 54 HP, that would leave his snake form at 13 HP
So if Oosith attacks Davroar again with its tail for 18, then yes he would revert back but would only have suffered 5 points to his human form.
Also, can Davroar cast another Summon Animals spell while the giant crabs from the first one are still active (but probably not for long )?
Dugan - Of course you can dismiss the remaining Crabs at any time (takes no Action to do) and Summon a new set of Animals. It becomes a cost benefit analysis. Once there are so few Crabs left, its probably not worth maintaining concentration for just 1 or 2 as opposed to creating a whole new set with full HPs.
Hi Dugan, I did my audit. The status I posted missed a legendary attack. I also fixed the current HP for Davroar in human form. It starts with this post with updated HUMAN hps.. Davroar had 40 current HP before transforming.
After this, he changed into a snake. He took 3 points of damage to the snake in this post. leaving the snake 54 current HPs.
What I didn't do is post a status after the legendary action taken by Oosith after you squeezed him (critically) here: in this post with a tail attack did 14 points of damage. That brought his down to 40. The 41 damage then dropped his form. 1 point is transfered to his human form leaving him 39 HP. It then added a legendary action tail-whip for 18 points leaving him 21 in human form, which is where we're at.
As Zeim stated, it may be advantageous for Davroar to drink his potion but he has a good CON bonus so he's alright for now.
And AJ, what a great turn! Killed KTM and did 25 points on Oosith!
As I read the map, from her new position, she should be able to draw a straight line for the LB in-between Bern and Sindar without hitting them. If you disagree let me know and I'll move her elsewhere and just attack Oosith with the LB).
Obviously this is Nep's call, but this was interesting enough for me to look up.
According to Xanathar's guide page 87, looks like you could, at a slight angle, actually get an effective 10-foot-wide beam.
But if you target exactly down a row or diagonal you can do exactly what it looks like you intended.
And the DMG, page 251. Although it's talking circular, the key word is "covers at least half a square". A line down the middle would cover exactly half a square which does fall into the "at least" category.
"Choose an intersection of squares or hexes as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal. If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square."
I'd probably go with the same rules as for movement, though
So, two things here. First, I'm fine with the chatter - any chatter in OOC. Aquadyne is a co-DM so I'm fine with his posts here. Most of what his posts are about is him learning some of the nuances of D&D so that he can run a game. His posts are not decisions at this time. The way they land on me is "This is how I would rule. What do you think Nep?" So I'm fine with that.
That brings me to the second point. How wide is a lightning bolt? It's 5' wide. So the idea of the 10' wide or the 1-inch beam are out. Zeim and I actually had a face-to-face discussion with Jeremy Crawford at Gencon about this exact question, in a slightly different form. Shapes of spells sometimes touch a fraction of a grid square. Obviously Oosith would be a direct line target and because Sindar and Bern are "adjacent" I would rule that it's impossible, in a 2-dimensional grid to avoid either. What Jeremy Crawford suggested is that those in "partially hit squares" should have advantage on their saves. (Do you remember that Zeim?).
But now the water is 10' over the walkway. I certainly think that Zhu can avoid hitting both party members but it would be from an "altitude". Of course, that takes KT5 out of the path of the LB since he's battling both. So I rule that he cannot get both KT5 and Oosith and avoid Sindar and Bern. He can choose to attack Oosith without putting party members at risk.
And hey, aren't we all glad that lightning bolt doesn't rebound like it did in AD&D. We might be pulling out our protractors and calculating refraction factors
(OOC - Bern's initial save is with Advantage since we are fighting the Aboleth. If he does Save then Oosith cannot drain him. If he doesn't Save with the added Advantage roll, then this latest set of Saves is also with Advantage.)
What makes you think that? It is not with advantage.
At one point I thought Bern's condition was described as being "Dominated. Looking at the Dominate spell says: ......
Quote
..You attempt to beguile a Humanoid that you can see within range. It must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be Charmed by you for the Duration. If you or Creatures that are friendly to you are Fighting it, it has advantage on the saving throw...
.....
OK, but on further research, if an Aboleth's 'Enslave' is not the same as 'Dominate', then perhaps no. It appeared the same at first glance, but now looking deeper they might be different.
MikeD - Extra rolls is up to Nep. I have to say, Bern is rolling like cr*p for Saves.
..as long as he doesn't roll the crits against us.....
Dugan, btw, when you summon more Animals having one of them hit Bern with small damage attacks until he breaks free of the Aboleth would probably be a good idea. In fact, if Bern gets a new save "every time he takes damage" it might even pay to have multiple small attacks directed his way so he can get one roll of 14+......
RANGED ATTACKS IN CLOSE COMBAT Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated.
Some spells don't need to "hit". IE: they require a saving throw. They are not affected. Dissonant Whispers is such a spell, therefore a good choice No need to step back - especially since you're under water. You decide heal or kill. I'll wait patiently for your post.
Moving away from an adjacent enemy provokes attacks of opportunity. It's not subjective.
Sure, if you say "moving".
But you do not provoke an attack "when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction."
You rise in water due to buoyancy, just as you can fall due to gravity. Falling does not provoke an opportunity attack. If the rising water lifts you up as you float, you are not using movement. You are being moved by the water.
The someone or something would be a push or a spell. Floating away using buoyancy is the character's choice, unless he/she is dead or paralyzed. In D&D we do not apply the normal laws of physics.
Correct And you're not accounting for the everything that Sindar is carrying (good thing I'm not fussy about encumbrance). Arguments like this are what trigger that type accounting .
He gets 2 attacks per round and uses a 2-handed attack. So he gets Main (rapier) + off hand (dagger as a bonus action) plus main (rapier) for his second attack.
So I wanted to talk about 5e subclasses. The last time I did a deep dive into all the subclasses was Dec 2020 and over the past year I see there have been a bunch of new additions to the line-up and a whole new main class, the Artificer (which sounds a bit vague and dull to me tbh).
So Nep, Zeim, anyone else with an opinion, any good new subclasses been released over the past year? And what do you make of the Artificer?
Also, I haven't read owt about new races but there must be some that've come out in the past year. Anything stand out?
Yeah. Just getting back now and it wasn't just the fantasy baseball auction.
The Fantasy Baseball draft meant about 60 hours of player research and planning (for a byte-head like me that is actually the fun part). Baseball is a very statistics based game and these days new player statistics are incredible. For example, they have a system called statcast which does many things like calculate the launch angle of a ball that the batter hits, the number of rotations that a baseball makes between the time it leaves the pitcher's hands and crosses the plate. All these thing paint a picture of what the player is capable of. That was followed by the 8 hour player auction. We distributed 350 players this way. Zeim was our auctioneer and did a great job.
That was everything leading up to and through Saturday. On Sunday I had to go to my son's apartment and help him get it ready for a new arrival (my first grandson is due in 2 weeks!!!!). Today was spent getting paperwork signed and notarized to sell my old NY home, obtain a Florida driver's license, register my car, get my TV provider to admit there's a problem so that they send out a technician this week and I spent several hours on hold between 3 different departments of Palm Beach County building inspectors and planners to get my pool heater permit closed.
It's always confounded me that motorsports, having had sophisticated telemetry for decades, barely shows any of it in the live coverage. I mean, they rarely even show you how fast a car's going.
IE in Sindar's case since he has a groin poking Kuo-toa right next to him, he could do Dissonant Whispers again, because he still has level 1 spell slots, even though he has cast DW already once? If so that is his choice.
Wis Save and 3d6 damage incase I am out of the loop since I am traveling the next couple of days.
Pande - Yes. You select a group of spells you want to be able to select from to cast each day and then you can use your "slots" to choose any of them or all of them. That is why you never choose the same spell twice for your daily list. If you have more than 1 slot you can always cast any given spell as many times as you have slots to do so.
Also note that you can use a higher level slot to cast a lower level spell (not counting Cantrips). So, if you happen to be out of 1st level spells slots for the day but you have a 2nd level slot left you can cast a first level spell using the second level slot. You can't use a 1st level slot to cast a 2nd level spell though. It only works in one direction. The spell will typically be more powerful (an extra die of damage or healing for example).
There is no "holding up the game" issues. I've got Aquadyne busy getting ready for the next chapter that he's running for y'all. I can wait for you Pande. Zeim's answer is close to word-for-word what I would have said.
My random carpool match up this morning was with an employee of Wizards of the Coast. He's in marketing and has Jack Black's phone number, and also spent time with the Stranger Things cast...
I would've been a total dork and asked him why Hasbro gave the GI Joe RPG to Renegade Studios rather than their very own Wizards. Then he would've asked me why I want to know that and I guess I'd say, because I'm a total dork.
I would've been a total dork and asked him why Hasbro gave the GI Joe RPG to Renegade Studios rather than their very own Wizards. Then he would've asked me why I want to know that and I guess I'd say, because I'm a total dork.
Matched this morning and asked this question. He implied Hasbro owns a portion of equity in Renegade. I'll be carpooling again tomorrow and try to get some clarity.
This was a VERY tough encounter - deadly. In a private message, Zeim thanked me for taking my foot off the gas. This could have easily been a TPK and he noticed the subtle but significant ways I relented. Still, that takes away nothing from the way that you handled this encounter. You did great! It was a very challenging scenario to run and for you to win. The aboleth is a powerful foe. Summonning the crabs was a great move and you lucked out and saved on some very critical saves (except for poor Bern) and only one of you were enslaved by the aboleth. It had 3 chances to enslave someone. Aside from enslaving it's enemies, the aboleth had the ability to cast illusions (Phantasmal force). It had legendary actions, lair actions and regional effects.
There is still reward collecting and end-of-scene wrap up to do before Aquadyne takes you on your next adventure. Before we get to that I wanted to congratulate you for completing a module. This entire Yartar scenario, from the time you found young Lord Artan Rossolio in the coccoon by the river up until now, was an add-on module for Storn King's Thunder called "Kraken's Gamble" that I downloaded from the DMs Guild. So, in effect, you completed a whole adventure!
Of course, there's much more to do. We aren't done with SKT. I'll let you heal up and you do need to spend some time tying up loose ends. You need to interact with the two new characters, see the waterbaron, Lady Rossolio and free the aboleth's prisoners. I'll let you all get started with that.
It's time to talk about the afflictions and the aboleth.
What a tough monster. I don't know how many of you have played higher level D&D but higher level monsters have extraordinary abilities. Aside from the normal attacks, the 3 tentacle multi-attack, the tail whip and the enslavement that it can do 3 times a day, it also gets legendary actions, lair actions and warps the area within 1 mile of it with regional effects.
The three Legendary actions it gets per round occur at any time after any other combatant goes. It's were a perception check (which it did not use), a tail swipe (which it used a lot) and a psychic drain with which one creature enslaved by the aboleth takes 10 (3d6) psychic damage, and the aboleth regains hit points equal to the damage the creature takes. This is what killed Lady Atalia, the Lady in Purple. It also used it on Bern when it had taken more than half damage.
The lair actions were interesting. They happen on initiative of 20. The aboleth created a phantasmal force (illusion) to lure the party down the central path where it laid in wait. It had the ability to create a grasping tide, which is how it swept everyone into the water. It also had the ability to target all foes in the water with psychic damage. I took my foot off the gas on this last one.
It's regional effects were that underground surfaces within 1 mile of the aboleth's lair are slimy and wet and are difficult terrain. That's why I had you make dex checks in the sewers. Water sources within 1 mile of the lair are supernaturally fouled. Enemies of the aboleth that drink such water vomit it within minutes. It's interesting that Yartar waters were never described as foul but the module had a similar sewer plague affliction so I went with that instead. Not all modules are "perfect". Finally, as an action, the aboleth can create an illusory image of itself within 1 mile of the lair. I didn't use that.
It's nastiest attack, however, is the tentacle attack. Those who are hit by one need to make a save or suffer the skin transformation. Since Bronwyn had treated Lord Artan, I gave her a chance to use her medicine skill to diagnose this. I made it a difficult task because she never saw the onset of the affliction and talking to Artan was not helpful. Aquadyne did not roll well enough for her to recognize the symptoms in time to prevent it from affecting Davroar and Zhu. Lets look at this nasty action:
Quote
Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 12 (2d6 + 5) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 14 Constitution saving throw can be removed by any magic that cures disease. After 1 minute, the diseased creature's skin becomes translucent and slimy, the creature can't regain hit points unless it is underwater, and the disease can be removed only by heal or another disease-curing spell of 6th level or higher. When the creature is outside a body of water, it takes 6 (1d12) acid damage every 10 minutes unless moisture is applied to the skin before 10 minutes have passed.
Interestingly, the regional foul water effect is described simply as follows:
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Water sources within 1 mile of the lair are supernaturally fouled. Enemies of the aboleth that drink such water vomit it within minutes.
What makes it interesting is that it does not have a save. It does not say if it's diseas or poison. It does not say how to cure it. That is why I went with what the module stated:
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Sewer Water. The sewer water is filled with refuse and garbage. The canals are 5 feet deep unless otherwise noted. The water heavily obscures anything more than 10 feet away. A creature that enters the water for the first time must succeed on a DC 11 Constitution saving throw or contract Sewer Plague.
Bern, Davroar and Zhu will need a cure disease to be cast on them.
That's a lot to absorb. I'll let you digest - if your stomachs can take it!
I really enjoyed this scrap. A triton paladin was right at home. Breathe and swim underwater, check. Underwater weapon, check. Darkvision, check. Immunity to disease, check!
So if the rest of the adventure takes place in a desert, I won't feel short-changed.
Zeim said: OOC - Nep - Zhu has stayed in the water as it felt better on her skin so I believe she would not feel the burning until she left it. In addition, if she was not in the water the healing would not work.
Zeim, The roll I asked Aquadyne to make was to see if Bronwyn could figure out if she needed to cast some cure disease before the cure wounds. Had the roll been successful, Bronwyn would have cast the cure disease spell before the cure wounds. Failing the roll, she did it in the reverse order. Zhu wouldn't realize that her skin would burn until she got out of the water and at some point she would have. Roleplay it as you wish. Effect all the same.
Zeim, Incorrect. It wouldn't do anything for them until the symptoms started to show. Read the tentacle action more carefully. Also about light, it's not an issue because Kolbaz would cast it as needed.
So, since I think Zhu and Davroar were not going to be healed until day 3 I suppose they can take whatever follow-ups have not been completed by that time.
DM Meanwhile, Kriv and Arus, while looking about the structure that held them captive in the western end of the aboleth’s lair, they find the compiled treasures of its noble victims. There are three neatly folded noble attires, each gaudy and expensive and now soaking wet with sewer water, as well as pouches containing a combined sum of 92 platinum pieces, 108 gold pieces, 45 silver pieces, two tourmalines (100gp each) and a single emerald. There’s also a pair of boots and what looks like musical pipes.
Additionally you find Artan Rossolio’s lost pendant, resplendent with its capital R engraved in emeralds on an onyx disk. Lastly, there’s ten Golden Goose coins, each worth 10gp.
Well, I imagine this would get discussed later and by the light of day but Arus would propose the party give the whole lot to the Waterbaron. Otherwise the party will be carrying it around as "lost property", stuck with its encumbrance but unable to spend it until we're sure no-one will come to claim it, which could be never.
Artan's pendant can be given directly to him.
What do you all think?
If we all agree then there's probably no point in discussing it in-character.
Well Noble Attire would be noticeable as would Artan's pendant. But the rest (coins and gems)? No one could say "Hey I recognize that gold piece!"
As for the boots and musical instruments, Zhu would like to see what they are and might have some interest in the boots if they are magical and would be of use to her, just as I am sure Sindar might be interested in the musical instrument.
Meta-gaming, those have all the smell of magic items placed into the treasure specifically for the party to have as a reward for the encounter. I would be against giving them up.
Well, it takes a Short Rest's worth of time (for someone Skilled in Arcana) while carefully handling/examining an item to determine if it is magical or not and its general properties. Have all of the items:
Boots, Instrument, Dagger, Studded Leather, and Rapier
brought to Zhu's room at the inn. She will be spending a few days in a tub bathing so she will have plenty of time to examine them all.
Meta-gaming, those have all the smell of magic items placed into the treasure specifically for the party to have as a reward for the encounter. I would be against giving them up.
...and he is correct.
Oh, and while we're at it, perhaps leveling up is in order? You'll all be 7th level by the time you move on. So go ahead, level up. If you need a hand, just PM me in your personal threads.
One thing I don't like in 5e is that the only way to gain a new skill is using "Downtime". You must spend a few months focused on learning the new thing. While that makes some sense from a realism point of view, we are playing a Fantasy game with magic. You get new spells and new abilities as you go up levels (without needing Downtime) under the 'assumption' that you have been studying all the while. I don't see why you can't be studying a new skill while you are adventuring and gain it when you level up?
In any case, the standard rules say only if you use Downtime.
Basically, your downtime and leveling up was spent between the Lost Mines of Phandelver module and the Storm King's Thunder. So, you're good to go until after 10th level.
The translation, in non-mechanical terms is that your character has figured out how to use his training.
Yeah, I wasted 5 healing pool trying that on Lord Artan! I have not forgotten.
I have no idea how Arus's auras would look or feel in-continuity. He has an Aura of Protection and now an Aura of Menace. Aura of Protective Menace or Aura of Menacing Protection?
Still, I think Arus the most formidable D&D character I've ever played. He's so self-contained. A triton conqueror paladin has it all!
Superb crowd-control vs mooks and wreckers with his Conqueror powers Superb burst damage vs bosses with his Smites and extra attacks Versatile healing with his Lay on Hands Immune to disease, resistant to cold, breathes underwater and has darkvision Decent spell list Wears heavy armour Top-end Charisma and skills to act as party face
As much as I loved Chandan, my human elemental monk, he had only one trick, Water Whip and it got nerfed by Wizards in the end too.
I called him that to distinguish him from the PHB version.
I highlighted some of the pertinent combat powers that are a bit different from the PHB version.
Primeval Awareness on p2 is also worth reading because it's much more potent than the PHB version.
Finally I linked up the spells in the spell list to online descriptions so you can quickly read what they do. (I noticed Bern hadn't used any of his spells in the past.)
I merged the Unearthed Arcana Revised Ranger PDF at the end for easy access.
Lemme take some time to go through it all, but happy to do what ever helps, thanks <g>
As to the spell thing ... there has not been a time that I recall when his 'spells' would be more helpful than his sword. I am sure that he would be using his healing in the 'recovery days' ... if they were helpful <g>
Aye, I think your spell selection previously was very 2nd Ed, MikeD. I tweaked your selection so there are spells that you can actively use in combat to big effect, like Hunter's Mark.
You can cast it as a bonus action so it doesn't even cost you your attack. It's like a free extra 1d6 damage.
Magic Weapon spell is useful because unless you have an actual magic weapon, if you encounter a monster that's immune to normal attacks then this spell is the only way you can inflict damage with your bow. It's also useful against monsters generally.
You can't run Hunter's Mark and Magic Weapon at the same time, alas, but they're tools in the arsenal.
So yes, a revised ranger is a hell of a lot more potent than an original version ranger in every way.
The thing I like more than the improved combat potency is the improved ranger-ness from Primeval Awareness. It means you're not limited to one terrain type and you truly are the bane of your favoured enemies.
And note that orcs and goblinoids have been rolled into one favoured enemy "humanoid" that also includes humans, dwarves, elves, etc..
<heh heh heh> Yeah ... like I said ... it'll take a bit for me to 'assimilate' it all. So don't hesitate to give me a nudge if you think I need one <wink>
Mike, Really? Let's try this one... You were attacked by a monster. It's now your turn. You cast "Hunter's Mark" which is a bonus action. Now using your regular action you attack twice with your scimitar and once with your dagger adding 1d6 to every hit. So if you hit 3 times, that's an additional 3d6 damage.
I can go through all your spells and tell you what I would do, but what fun would that be?
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HUNTER'S MARK 1st-leveI divination Casting Time: 1 bonus action Range: 90 feet Components: V Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour Vouchoose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack. and you have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. lf the target drops to O hit points before this spell ends. you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature. At Higher Leveis. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th leveI, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th levei or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
Zhu is going to the temples and Davoar is heading to the river. I really need to know who is going to see the Waterbaron and who is going to see Lady Rosillio and who is doing something else. There are 3 days and some players will have other things to do, like meet their faction contacts or just sit in the bar getting sauced
After Arus has charted the sewer to the river, he'll spend a day getting properly cleaned up. He'll also buy new clothes, a new longsword and have his armour restored.
Nep, we still haven't determined what magic items Arus has from character creation!
Kriv and Sindar (and Zhu if she stops peeling) should debrief the Waterbaron, since they first approached her.
AJ said Kriv's going to debrief Lady Rosillio, Arus will accompany him when he does.
Davroar was by the river. He had found an embankment where river currents washed over him periodically, during the night. It was an uncomfortable night because the skin on his face that did not get wet would start to burn. He would toss water onto it half asleep. While his skin needed water, his lungs needed air. It would not be a good situation until he had enough rest to transform into a water breathing creature. After a restless night the thought of accepting help from the priestess that took Zhu in was becoming tempting.
Davroar regains his wild shape after a short or long rest. I would think his night would not be too unbearable if he can get by being in his human form for a hour or so. Then he can use his two shape-changes to remain as a fish for a total of six hours before having to get out and sit by the rivers edge again.
Since it was mentioned in the thread now, do any of us know how long Doppelgangers live? Just curious if this Semmonemily has any chance of being the same Doppelganger we've run into.
Re: Davroar .... I'm going to make the assumption that he can handle himself for a couple of days by doing exactly that.
Re: Doppleganger .... It would take research and some rolls to see if that info is even known and available. When we get you out of that tub you can dig into it.
1. Please update all your character sheets. You've just spent the last 3 days resting/healing and replenishing any supplies/potions you want.
2. Expect the first post to inquire about your travel plans. If you want to discuss that in the tail end of the current IC thread, feel free to get started. You might find this post a refresher of what your plans were entering Yartar. The scale of the map in that thread indicates about 100 miles' journey along Evermoor Way until you get to Calling Horns. Plan accordingly.
Good question. Better answer coming. 1) Everyone should be 7th level. 2) I've signed up for D&D Beyond so you can move/convert/re-enter your sheet there. Or, you can use Roll20. Or you can use any other site that allows creation of a PDF version. It's just good to have links to them in one place, which should be atop the forum in a list. 3) I'm going to NPC along playing Zindra. I don't really know what Aquadyne has cooked up for us but I'm sure that I know more than the rest of you.
When you have a PDF of your character, shoot it off to me please or provide a pointer to the PDF if it's stored in the cloud.
Nep. I've altered the links at the top of the forum to point to these sheets then. If anyone else has a hosted "master" sheet they use, post the link and I'll alter yours too.
I have to "grant" access to the character sheet to players and yes, you have to be logged in. To make life easy, I granted access to all of you to all sheets.
Cool, so what I'll do is ferret out the direct links to the Roll20 character sheets for those players who are using them as a master, use them in the forum links. In theory, when someone clicks on the link it'll take them to the Roll20 login but afterwards automatically forward to the sheet.
Update: OK, that doesn't work. The URL you obtain from the Roll20 character sheet is actually within an applet that you have to load by launching the game within Roll20 first.
So if you're using a Roll20 character sheet I think you're best just to white list the site in privacy settings and bookmark a link in your browser.
Actually, what I am going to do is try and get all the character sheets into DndBeyond. I know it'll be rare for us to play face-to-face (or avatar-to-avatar) but DnDBeyond characters link nicely to Roll20, ForgeVTT and Discord, if we ever want to do that again.
I don’t use it for DreamLyrics only so it’s worth it. I don’t buy all the books so that’s a challenge for players that pick classes and races from books other than the player handbook.
You know what, I think we've chatted about this before!? But yes, it's a sensible reason to limit the books permitted in a campaign as WotC release gradually more.
So, Neptune and everyone, what do you make of the new "Customizing Your Origin" optional rules in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything?
These allow you to take the Ability Score Increases that you get from your race and apply them to another Ability Score to better represent your unique character.
Frex, if you had an elf that you wanted to be strong instead of dexterous, you could transfer the typical +2 DEX bonus to +2 STR. The only caveats are:
1. You can’t bring any ability score above 20, 2. If you receive 2 ASIs as part of your race, you cannot increase the same ability score twice.
Also includes rules for switching out languages and proficiencies from your racial traits.
Seems to dilute the point of the races, from a tactical point of view. If any pc can increase Str (or any other stat), not just Dwarves, Half-Orcs, and Humans then why bother defining it at all? Just tell all players you get a +2 and a +1 you can put into any stat and move on.
Yeah, I'm not sure about it myself. I can go round and round with it.
Pro: If you want to play an elf two-handed fighter with a greatsword then elf might be a suboptimal choice at low level. Con: But then you might rightly say "Yes, some races are better or worse at things than others, obviously. Halfings are never going to be as strong as half-orcs."
Then again, Pro: You could have two players wanting to play elves and wanting to distinguish each other. "My elf is the strong one." "My elf is the smart one." Like you might do with two human characters. (Majere Twins anyone?) Con: But an elf fighter with +0 STR increase and 15 STR is still a better fighter than an elf wizard with a +2 INT increase and 17 STR, who is still a wizard.
Pro: Why limit a player's creativity? Con: Limitations can push you into creative decisions you wouldn't normal make.
See what I mean?
My personal taste, for D&D 5e, is to stick to the standard race Ability Score Increases. Straight off the bat, I don't think I'd have discovered Arus without them.
If there is no 'distinction' to a race ... what is the point of the race? It is meant to give the player some 'structure' to build their unique character upon.
On the other hand, it creates 'limitations' that will tend to 'direct' character development in certain directions based on that race.
But how is that different than class which dictates a lot of what the character can be/become?
And I agree nem. I think those things are what help you make a character that is uniquely 'yours' <g>
As a DM, I allow players to use something if I don't have to pay for it. In the new universe of VTTs and DnD Beyond I have to buy books 3 times over. Not happening. In the new games I started I'm allowing Player Handbook options and not much aside from that. Infinite options create the mess (IMO) that DnD 3.5 became. Imagine what chaos would ensue if they added a new piece to chess. Let's see you first make a standard character work.
On the other hand, the tweaks Nem mention are minor and wouldn't bother me unless the player has a problem making DnD Beyond work and wants me to do work to make it work.
We've been playing an AD&D 2nd Ed adventure recently in our ftf group and I'm playing a bog standard, classic dwarf cleric. It totally works. Having said that 2nd Ed is deeply weird and now I've finally played it I'm glad it's relegated to history.
And I like your point, MikeD. Race has little bearing on what a character can do in-game compared to their class anyway, so it's probably what easiest and least expensive for the group that counts. Let's say your group used D&D Beyond, would anyone want to pay $30 just to be able to swap their Ability Score increases? Not I!
I suspect the optional rule is more appealling to organised play where GMs see a lot of characters and get bored of the same tropes. "Please not another wood elf ranger! How about a half-orc ranger for a change!?"
On this subject, I saw one argument for the optional rule was that it prevents players from choosing the race that's optimal for their class, power-gaming in essence.
I'm definitely a power gamer so I can say that this optional rule doesn't prevent min-maxing. For example, it makes mountain dwarves very desirable since they have a +2 Str and +2 Con that you can swap to other abilities. So mountain dwarf gives you more bang for your buck.
Choosing the Race that is optimal for my class and power gaming is my primary goal when setting up a new pc so anything that reduces that I am against.
I'm with you. My point is that the optional rule doesn't prevent power gaming though, so if that's a GM's motive for using it they might be disappointed.
I mean, this is D&D we're talking about; the whole point is to literally level up your character. Imho power gaming is core to the experience and that's totally fine.
If I was a GM my main motive for using the optional rule would be to encourage unusual race/class combinations, but I don't play enough D&D to be bored of the usual race/class combinations yet.
Trying to optimize your PC only leads me to make the encounters all the more difficult. Make your PC stronger and you face tougher foes. In the end, to properly run a game it must be challenging without being impossible. A problem arises when the PCs are not close to equal in power. The DM is forced to make encounters either a cakewalk for the optimized or deadly for the mundane character.
That's another excellent point, Neptune, and another one often overlooked by GMs.
Only the GM has an overview of all the character builds in the group. So the Zeims and Nems might be building carefully optimised characters, whereas others will start out with back story, develop from there but generally stick to the story when they build.
Unless the system is particularly well-balanced, you can end up with a party of mixed power levels and that will cause player and GM angst the longer they play.
Palladium's Rifts is probably the worst I've seen for this. "I'm playing a humble, self-taught scholar who studies Golden Age artefacts and has 95 hit points." "That's nice, I'm playing an ancient dragon necromancer with magical tattoos and 23,000 hit points."
That's not an exaggeration. As a GM you have to let players know what power level your game will be and ensure all builds reach the bar.
FFG's Star Wars and D&D 3rd Ed allowed you to build pretty poorly optimised characters too.
D&D 5th Ed's excellent for balance though. Even if you choose a suboptimal race/class combo it'll iron out as you level up.
The only slightly shoddy classes are standard ranger and monk.
Even the standard ranger and the monk can work. In our FTF game where Zeim and I took characters to 20th level, both were represented and neither player ever complained about their PC's abilities.
Absolutely. I enjoyed Chandan too and he was a five elements monk, regarded as the weakest of the subclasses. But as cool a character as he was, he wasn't nearly as powerful and useful a party-member as a conqueror paladin.
That's one of the reasons I changed at the end of LMP. I didn't feel like he was contributing nearly as much as a different class would.
To my mind, it shouldn't purely be an optimisation of base stats. There needs to be an optimisation of personality, of interaction, of a character's given schtick. Getting the most out of skills and backgrounds not merely as things your character does well but as windows into their personality and outlook.
I'm with Nem on this one. I often find, if I'm creating a character, that the one I created makes no sense for the game that I'm playing. I use the early chapters to develop my character's personality. However, D&D does have a baseline for the character from the get-go. I find that the D&D background with the personality traits, ideals, bonds and flaws combined with the background are more than enough to get started with.
So as I am looking up 7th level bard, I noticed this 6th level ability. Not sure I recall Sindar using this to counter the Aboleth's Mind Influencing attacks?
Countercharm At 6th level, you gain the ability to use musical notes or words of power to disrupt mind-influencing effects. As an action, you can start a performance that lasts until the end of your next turn. During that time, you and any friendly creatures within 30 feet of you have advantage on saving throws against being frightened or charmed. A creature must be able to hear you to gain this benefit. The performance ends early if you are incapacitated or silenced or if you voluntarily end it (no action required).
So lots of good 4th level spells (you get a new 4th level spell at 7th). Are you looking for an attack spell, a disabling spell, a "buff" spell?
Take a look here: http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/spells:bard
Don't forget to roll your HPs (or add 6 HPs if you are using the average). You can also swap a spell you currently have for a new one.
To edit the sheet, you must select the "Character Sheet" tab and then highlight the pencil icon. Once you do that you can select the "gear" icon next to each line (to change it to yellow) which will allow you to edit the text.
For spells, I believe once you have your character sheet open you need to go to the Compendium icon (upper right of main screen, "i" in a circle, not on pc sheet) go to spells, select your class and level and the spell you want and then drag it onto the pc sheet.
Looking through stuff, it seems that Sindar should have another lvl 2 and a level 4 spell. Given his spell list, he has a lot of Wis save attack style spells.
Spell list currently is: Cantrips prestidigitation, vicious mockery, dancing lights, [eldritch blast] - Lvl 1 : tasha's hideous laughter, healing word, detect magic, dissonant whispers, heroism - Lvl 2 : shatter, invisibility - Lvl 3 : tongues, fear, [dispel magic]
Considering for my level 2 See Invis or Knock, though he has thieves picks and tools, though there are a few good spells in there.
For level 4, I am considering a few different ones, but Raulothim's Psychic Lance is a nice attack spell. As is Phantasmal Killer. Charm Monster or Compulsion certainly have their utility, as does the good ole faithful Dimension Door.
Pande - Remember in 5e you do not get spells/lvl to know, only to cast. With your 10 known spells at 7th level, you could choose to have a single 1st level spell you cast 4 times a day, a single 2nd level spell you cast 3 times a day, a single 3rd level spell you cast 3 times per day, and then a variety of 7 4th level spells that you can choose from but can only cast one of per day.
Now in reality, as you progress you wouldn't be able to align it that way, but I was exaggerating to make a point. Do not align the number of spells you can CAST with the number of spell you can KNOW.
In this case, since you just gained 4th level you would gain a 4th level spell to know. You also get the ability to change any one spell for any one other spell (regardless of level), so you could drop one of your first level spells and take a second 4th level spell now.
For the spell you are short, it can be of any level you are able to cast, 1-4. It doesn't have to be 2nd. Considering your bleh comments on the 2nd level options you have I might suggest using it to take a second 4th level spell here.
Nem... Pretty! Sure I will take your assistance! I started to make changes on Roll20, so some stuff like HP are on there.
I had forgotten about spell slots. I am old, and was playing Ad&d Monday night on the net with Stranger and another friend, which is a game called Star Chamber, 1960s Bond with magic, the two characters are a tri class Monk, Cleric of Vishnu, Ranger, and an Assassin, Wizard. Both 00 agents of course! Stranger in a Strange Land is the GM, and refuses to learn another game, so we keep playing the same system we have been playing since the mid 70s, whenever AD&D hit the shelves. We started with Chainmail. For me 5e is a strange beast!
I heartily agree 2 fourth level spells are the way to go! Probably Raulothim's Psychic Lance and one other, maybe Dimension Door since he doesn't have the convenient Fey Step power that an Elf has. Stinking pointy eared....
FWIW ... I have not been 'carried away' by any of the versions after 3 ... or maybe 3.5 (they are very similar and it has been a while <sigh> since I sat down to play either F2F :-/)
I updated his known spells for 7th too, and changed out Fear for Leomund's Tiny Hut since the party will be on the road an awful lot now. For his second magic secret I added the Fly spell. Can always find a use for Fly, especially outdoors!
MikeD - Well I would discount 4e, that was something other than D&D. I happened to like 3.5 too. Even though it had rules contradictions and you needed a Mack Truck to carry around all of the Addendum Books. I like 5e most, I think, because of the focus on simplifying things. That is why I am leery of the new playtest version coming out.
Pande - DD is good, although it is very specific in use. Most of the time you won't cast it, but the one time you need it it can be critical to have. Still, when you have only 1 spell slot to use, and two spells to select, it is wasteful to take another damage spell. Just as an FYI, Zhu has taken Confusion as one of her 4ths so I think you can cross that off the list.
D&D is equal parts role playing and roll playing. 4e was 99% roll playing. There was very little element of role playing left. Everything was reduced to tactics and strategy (which is actually why I liked it). Everything in the game was about building up your pcs combat power. All of the abilities were combat related. That IS a big part of the game, but IMO it was tilted far too much to one side. Most people I talk to about it liken it to a tactical wargame.
Panda ... I didn't =have= to be that way. The GM has a big part in that and it =does= take a lot more work on the GMs part. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it is as fun to play as any other version.
Pande, 5e is much closer to 1st and 2nd editions than 3, 3.5 or 4th. As Zeim said, it's simpler and streamlined and 4e wasn't D&D. The number of actions per round, the interrupts, the multiple defensive ratings just made things very different.
MikeD, IMO an edition really cannot be evaluated in a PbP game. FTF is the litmus test. Running 4e at high levels was impossible. Zeim and I ran a 5e game to 20th level and it was manageable. Yes, the BBE battle at the end took a very long time to run but there were about several dozen combatants with a lot of hit points.
To me the game without the story is just okay. It's Arena D&D. There's a place for that but a compelling story line and good roleplaying enrich the experience.
I remember you running 4e at GenCon. I was at your table with Doretta Reilly! What edition would you run if the stars aligned properly and you decided to run?
Ahh ... I had forgotten that. Damn I miss DR!! <sigh>
Well on first level, the story matters most. I can (and have) run games in most of the versions. 5e is the exception. I have not played or run it.
As to what I would run (if I were to run a game again) ... the 'edition' is not the real issue. The most important first question is the story. Is it a sound, reasonable and most importantly 'fun' 'tale' that will work in the selected game environment. Like I said ... I have enjoyed them all. But I will admit that there have been games in every edition that made me want to strangle the 'authors' :-/
Pande - Taking conversation here to try to not clutter up thread. So spells designated as Rituals take an additional 10 minutes to cast (so are not really usable in battle) but do not use up any of your spell slots. That also means you can't use a higher level spell slot to get extra effects. It also means you don't have to have them memorized to use that way. Beyond Leomund's Tiny Hut, it is actually one of the best ways (when not in a hurry) to use Detect Magic btw.
Since the item was mentioned in the main thread, did those Fire Giants get away with the giant Rod they dug up? I was a while ago and I don't remember.
Since the item was mentioned in the main thread, did those Fire Giants get away with the giant Rod they dug up? I was a while ago and I don't remember.
You have to read the small print on purchases like these, for sure.
But on a slightly serious note, the glamping dome in that photo is the same size as a Leomund's Tiny Hut so it's quite spacious. Great spell for wilderness travel.
DM A fog rolls into the clearing, obscuring the animals. An elf, dressed in red, approaches, accompanied by a bard, singing
Goldie the gold horned reindeer Had some very shiny horns. And if you ever saw them, You'd say they shined like the morn.
The elf appears to have magic, casting "Fly" on all nine reindeer. Soon they can be seen rising above the fog, speeding off to give presents to children and ogres.
Very nice, AquaDyne. I got a paperback for Christmas and its pages are already coming loose. Was from Dark Horse Publishing; they've been around long to know better, you'd have thought.
Nem ... could be that they made a mistake ... cutting a bit =too= much on production costs to keep the price down ... not realizing how much it would affect the final product <shrug>
Nice! I've read a lot of comments by DMs that don't use it. Bah! It's an excellent guide. There are issues, like calculating CR for a monsters and the like, lack of non-combat encounter design and so on. But there's a lot of great stuff for the creative DM to use.
Aye, you're probably right, MikeD. Shame though because you can't sell or pass on a book with loose leaves, so it's ultimate destination has to be the bin really.
Nep, you had a read through the new starter set yet?
No plans but an offline buddy has bought it to run for his boys, so I might get in on that action.
I did get the Symbaroum starter set for Christmas. It's a fantasy RPG with classes and races not unlike D&D but does have some interesting mechanics.
It's "roll low" but I won't hold that against it. What I like is that the GM doesn't roll any dice in combat. The players simply roll defence, modified by the monster's abilities and damage/effects are triggered by the specific result. So the players are always involved in the action, even during the GM's phase.
In the current situation, Jaliera goes twice before anyone else goes. She can use both spells or use Sleep twice, the second time for anyone who escaped the first one or was out of the AOE.
It may not be obvious from the screencap of the grid (sorry) but the two warriors are 35 feet apart.
Colour spray is a 15 foot cone, which requires Jaliera to get within 15 feet to cast, plus there's no geometric way to hit both with the same spell in the same turn. It would take the full one of her two turns just to get close enough; she could cast one but the other would be able to see and give chase; she could keep alternating which one she cast on (until she ran out of spell slots) but they only last until the end of the next turn. Plus being blinded doesn't prevent them from calling for help in the off chance (hahaha) there are others nearby.
Sleep, on the other hand, is a 20 foot radius from a point within range, so could be cast immediately from where Jaliera is, and twice if needed, without having to waste a turn on movement. And when you're asleep, no one can hear you scream.
[OOC the other idea I had was to change self to appear as one of them and beckon them over.. but they may not come or having them where Jaliera is might not be good for our escape, so the sleep plan is a good solution, especially as she can see if it works first! ]
I'll need a roll: 5d8 if level 1 spell slot, add 2d8 per level for higher slots.
Since everyone else is surprised and you're first in initiative order, you will actually have two turns, so if the first spell fails, you can try again. But for now just do one roll.
the other idea I had was to change self to appear as one of them and beckon them over
I was trying to figure out what you could do with Mage Hand. I mean, tap the guy on the shoulder and then tease the hand at stealing those golden antlers? Such fun!
OK, I am not there so apologies for this bit of Meta-gaming. To me, the situation screams out for us to save the Reindeer with the Golden Horns, even if it means fighting all of the Barbarians.
With regard to multiple people doing Int checks for the same thing (specifically "any significance to a golden horned reindeer"), I am uncomfortable as a DM with a sequential "A tries, if they fail B tries the same thing, if they fail maybe C might know." My gut instinct is that everyone should roll and the result should be based on half of the party succeeding at the level for which I give information. (PHB p. 175 Group Checks).
Obviously that's not possible when the initial check was done remotely from the group so I can't take back the information given.
Other alternative is letting whoever has the highest modifiers roll, in which case if Davroar has lower or equal Int Dice than Zindra I'd say the result stands as is, otherwise I'll allow another roll.
Or what I'm pushing for in the other conversation is asking a different question than "tell us about golden horned reindeer" so it's a different roll. For example I asked for a History roll earlier, so any other aspect that might be relevant to ask about?
So they way that works, I believe, is the person with the best score rolls and someone else can "Assist". They also roll (not sure if its a skill roll or just a D10) and if the succeed then the person making the check gets a +2 (again I believe) to their roll. Group checks are usually for something everyone is doing, like sneaking around. Not sure you can say everyone, even if they are not trained in History, would be able to know about the Reindeer.
1) There are no assists on knowledge skill tests. You either know or don't know something. The player has to make a really good case when they lobby to assist in a knowledge check.
2) The player must be trained in the skill to use it. Depending on how obscure something is, it may be silly. Pretty much everyone can tell a lizard from a chicken. Does everyone know how to tell a gecko from an iguana? How about and agama from an anole? This is the DM's call. In the case of the lizard vs chicken, I would never ask for a skill check.
3) Everyone that is skilled can make the check. If Zeim doesn't know how to tell an agama from anole, does that mean that I don't? Nope.
4) There is a difficulty class associated with the skill check. See the quoted material below to see how to make that decision. As for difficulty, Tasha's Cauldron of Everything has a section on research and recommends using DC 10 plus the creature's challenge rating. That's usually a good metric to start with but a stone giant and a hill giant are high CR's but might be easier to figure out than a 0 CR. The best guidance is in the DMG:
Code
Task DC
Code
Very easy 5
Easy 10
Moderate 15
Hard 20
Very hard 25
Nearly impossible 30
5) There is strong guidance on how you decide what skill to use and I use it:
Quote
Arcana. Your Intelligence (Arcana) check measures your ability to recall lore about spells, magic items, eldritch symbols, magical traditions, the planes of existence, and the inhabitants of those planes.
History. Your Intelligence (History) check measures your ability to recall lore about historical events,legendary people, ancient kingdoms, past disputes, recent wars, and lost civilizations.
Nature. Your Intelligence (Nature) check measures your ability to recall lore about terrain, plants and animals, the weather, and natural cycles.
Religion. Your Intelligence (Religion) check measures your ability to recall lore about deities, rites and prayers, religious hierarchies, holy symbols, and the practices of secret cults.
But if you think about this golden horned reindeer, It could have historical significance, be a natural creature that was blessed by a god and has magical powers. In short, all four skills could apply.
Here's the bottom line/official ruling because it's all I have time and mental energy for right now:
1. An Int (History) check has already been done. If you want to repeat it then it would be under the "assist" rules Zeim mentioned where someone with higher training would be able to gain advantage based on someone else. As in... if a player has studied history enough to be the hero here, they get the chance to shine and gain an advantage from someone who has studied less but may provide a useful bit of insight.
I'm ok with that in preference to Neptune's point 1, in that I prefer rewarding character training over lucky dice.
2. Neptune has indicated more options than History in point 5. A new roll with one of these other aspects would be cool. (Knock, knock, hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.). And I used the scale in point 4, you all just didn't see it (or anything above the existing roll, hahaha.)
3. I'm curious if the party will do anything different based on all this. I guess we'll see!
Pande - on the armor thing, another option is to hold onto it and the next time you reach a level divisible by 4, instead of taking the Stat increase you can take a Feat that would let you wear Medium armor.
I see runes before my eyes, in the morning, at work, when drinking beer at night Rune-lore is clear to me, like the sky, the oceans and money for free No fight too hard for me, I love melee When Icelandic anarcho-capitalism pumps in my heart
I can tell friend from foe, by their expressions when I enter the room Separate barbarian from baboon, the difference between hero and goon
I’m the bearer of the lightning-sword... THE LIGHTING SWORD! It’s not there to see, but when I need the steel It gives me absolute supremacy... SUPREMACY! I’m the bearer of the lightning-sword
But one trick is above the rest, Life is no stress for me I have the advantage, I’m the bearer of magic steel Out of thin air, a blade flashes straight into my hand
When the ghosts of the night attack in the dark, I know I might lose my blade What I own can be taken from me, this item forged by metal dwarves in the past
And from epic to the nerdy.... AquaDyne. Gust of Wind spell says it can move a medium sized creature 15 feet backwards, suggesting a wind speed of about 70-80 mph. I reckon that might have a chance of uprooting the sword if fired at the pommel but since it's all magic, not physics, what do you reckon? Am I barking up the wrong 30-foot blade?
Gust of Wind spell says it can move a medium sized creature 15 feet backwards, suggesting a wind speed of about 70-80 mph.
I started to do math and then realized that it's all probably the same with just a few tweaks. I'd expect wind to provide the same force as a rope pulling on the pommel.
Anyone in the party have Mold Earth? Probably an easier approach
No-one has that cantrip afaik. Jaliera suggested Mage Hand and if it can lift 10 pounds 30 feet in 6 seconds (1 round), that's about as much force as it takes to open a jar of pickles. I guess it depends on whether it can grip the runestone hard enough... just like opening a jar of pickles!
Went to late showing of D&D: Honor Amongst Thieves last night btw. I enjoyed it. It's a bit Guardians of the Galaxy, a bit more The Princess Bride, and seems made with genuine love of the game. It most definitely isn't serious or artistic but it flies by like a fun, light-hearted one-off session.
My only criticism would be its extreme family-friendliness. Except when playing with kids in the group, my D&D games have always been a lot more bawdy than this film.
I like Glork's idea of leverage, but having watched the video, I see it requires tightly cinching the lifting board/log to the post/sword. That'd be rope in your case, and swords have sharp edges unlike round fence posts. And at some point you'd have to get close enough to the sword to tie the rope around it, and I'd probably require some sort of roll to avoid touching it in that process.
Of course, there's the simple solution: Glork is 10 feet high. Kriv is 7 feet high. That's probably close enough to reach the stone.
(OOC - We also have a Druid who can shape change. He is one level shy of being able to change to a flying creature, but as a Circle of the Moon adherent he can become an Allosaurus, which is 16.5 feet tall. Should be easy to climb on its back and reach.)
I thought that the rule for Druid wildshape is that you can only change into something that you have seen or know of, and I kind of doubt that Davroar has seen an Allosaurus in his travels so far.
Also that's the first of countless future birds. However, some of the local ground-dwelling creatures are going to have to start working for their dinner now!
As a note, I didn't have Sindar cast D-magic on the rune stone, because really what was the point? We all knew it was magic from the flashes of lightning. Correct me if I am wrong in that choice.
As a note, I didn't have Sindar cast D-magic on the rune stone, because really what was the point? We all knew it was magic from the flashes of lightning. Correct me if I am wrong in that choice.
Well, you know it’s magic just like you know a potion of water breathing is magic.
But you know when you might want to use the water breathing potion.
If nothing else, you can have Glork throw the rock at someone, I guess
I'm sure that you'll all agree that Aquadyne is doing a great job as DM! I sure think so.
With Miales joining the game, that makes 9 players / DM-NPC (Zindra). If Aquadyne made a character ... that's 10. My elementary math says "that's two parties of five".
When we started the campaign with Lost Mines of Phandelver there were two groups that played in parallel games. There was no other logical path to take. This module is different. We can absolutely divide the team and they can walk two distinctly different paths that make sense from an in-game perspective. Oddly enough, the PM conversations that I've had with players make the division of labor almost obvious. Aquadyne is still running for now. He's got stuff planned. But at some point we'll divide into two game threads. I'll run one that Aquadyne plays in and he'll run one that I play in. While there will be two teams now, they will definitely reunite in chapters to come.
Game pace here means this is a few months advance notice. But there will come a time, and you'll know it when you see it (or we'll remind you) that we're going to go our separate ways.
Question for GM's: What temperature could flaming sphere reach? If the mask is not magical, I'm just wondering if the spell could melt a portion of the gold off the large mask for easier transport.
When you move the sphere, you can direct it over barriers up to 5 feet tall and jump it across pits up to 10 feet wide. The sphere ignites flammable objects not being worn or carried, and it sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.
Poor answer but what I would go for is that the ONLY impact on non-living things is what is stated in the spell above. It will ignite a curtain or a stack of hay, burn down a library or torch a wood building. It cannot be used like a forge or a blow torch. If the mask is made of wood, it would burn. If the mask is made of gold or iron it would not melt it.
Note that the flaming sphere does NOT ignite your clothing or your wood-shaft spear either.
Fire is between 600C and 1650C. The melting point of gold is about 1000C. A blazing forest fire is about 800C. But I think you're asking about an XY problem.
I think Nep gave a great answer. Magical fire does not follow the laws of physics. Real fire would burn flammable objects being worn or carried, while this spell doesn't.
Anyway, as the DM for this particular plot, I'm ruling you can't melt the mask with the Flaming Sphere spell. And you can transport it easily, just have Glork carry it!
OOC: I thought he was an Ogre. He has a 19 strength where the 100lb mask is considered a light load. Also he is of large size not medium so was under the impression that his modifier for that was 3x on the carrying capacity table
OOC: I thought he was an Ogre. He has a 19 strength where the 100lb mask is considered a light load.
OOC: Where's your reference for "light load"?
Quote
Also he is of large size not medium so was under the impression that his modifier for that was 3x on the carrying capacity table
Carrying capacity is not the same as encumbrance.
See for example here where "Size and Strength" is a caveat to the carrying capacity along with push, drag, or lift. In particular, pushing or dragging is specifically called out as impacting speed related to your max carrying capacity.
However, right below that, the encumbrance rule is directly related to strength, and not related to a fraction of your carrying capacity. And it's "intentionally simple".
Perhaps there's a grey area here, but my DM ruling is:
Quote
If you carry weight in excess of 5 times your Strength score, you are encumbered, which means your speed drops by 10 feet.
Edit: Well, maybe not. Looks like DnDBeyond calculates encumbrance doubling it, and since we're somewhat going with that to avoid calculating it ourselves, I'll go ahead and say your limit for encumbrance is 190 lbs.
Also, the mask now weighs 200 lbs. . (OK, kidding.)
If you carry weight in excess of 5 times your Strength score, you are encumbered, which means your speed drops by 10 feet.
That is a rather generalistic view of carrying capacity. except it doesn't take into account there are modifications due to the size of the creature. Glork is classified as a large humanoid. Which means those calculations should be higher due to size of the creature alone.
Found this:
Quote
Large Strength 19 (+4) Carrying Capacity: 570 pounds Push, Lift, Drag: 1,140 pounds Monsters: allosaurus, brown bear, bulette, chimera, chuul, giant eagle, guardian naga, hezrou, ogre, ogre zombie, oni, sahuagin baron, wyvern, young black dragon, young brass dragon, young copper dragon, young green dragon, yuan-ti abomination
For simplicity sake let's just say the mask is 350 lbs and go with the encumbrance anyway since you are insisting on it. Incidentally I seriously doubt they planned on a freaking Ogre to be a playable character anyway.
In reality I was expecting the thing to be much heavier and him fall over.
Glork
Tries to get the mask balanced and stumbles under the weight.
Yep, as I said, I've reversed my ruling. It's 100 lbs, Glork is not encumbered, I've been educated, and Glork is still not (yet) either a Kobold or a smoking crater in the ground.
(OOC - Map is blacked out again. I don't recall being able to see any labels on the enemies before? You have to enable the option for players to see the enemy name or only you can see it.
The D&D initiative movement thing kind of sucks. In real life all of the foes would be riding up together and so could be targeted together as a group by a spell. Using the initiative movement they move one by one and will fire at us one by one so if you want to target several of them you have to let them move and shoot first until enough of them are all gathered together. Readying a spell that says "cast once they reach xx distance" will only apply to the first one, or you have to let them all shoot arrows at you and then do it on all of them after they've all gone.
So, for Zhu, depending on the range they're at now she can either cast something before the mass of enemy moves, if they're in range, or wait until they've all gone and shot at us. Those are the only two times, I believe, where she can target a group.)
[OOC: This is often solved by NPC groups being exactly that, grouped on one initiative rank. Except for a named or more powerful NPC which can be special.]
(OOC - Pande - Except that for a readied action that says "cast a spell when they reach 120 feet away", for example, each foe will move to 120 feet individually and fire. If she casts the spell on the first one she loses the chance to get all the rest, who in reality all moved up together. If she waits until they all move and fire then she can't interrupt their turn. Only way it could be solved is if all the enemy move together but don't attack until all movement is finished, then they all attack. That would give a chance for a readied action to be inserted between their movement and attacks and be able to target a large group.)
[OOC: I agree, but you are operating on a more mechanical level than I am thinking. If they all have the same rank in the turn order, they move, and act. A triggered action could be retconed into that set of things much more easily. Which is why I suggested a single spot.]
[OOC: This is often solved by NPC groups being exactly that, grouped on one initiative rank. Except for a named or more powerful NPC which can be special.]
They are grouped like this (mostly): the "scouts" are the main group, there are more powerful leaders (BW, BB, BP) and there's a unique type "assassin" which is different than the scouts and may employ different tactics.
Originally Posted by Zeim
Those are the only two times, I believe, where she can target a group.)
OOC: While they have the same initiative order, they move individually (and in the same order) just like players who roll the same initiative. (I'll be using alphanumeric ordering by label.). This is necessary so they don't, for example, all fire arrows at the same target who may be dead by the time the 6th one gets a shot. So it is entirely possible to ready an action to trigger an AOE spell centered near BS-N2 targeting BS-N1 and BS-N3 by phrasing the trigger "when 3 targets are in range and there is an AOE point that can hit all three".
(OOC - Logged in as Zeim. My pc is Zhu. I could initially not see it, then you flipped something and I could, but now black again. Let me check again......WAIT, now I see it AND the labels! Yay!
BTW, it would actually be more realistic if the all fired together as a volley and even if they fired 6 arrows and 3 killed the target and the others were wasted, that would be how it would happen. Understand system doesn't work that way. Let me go check ranges now....)
(OOC - She is mounted. I mentioned her being mounted before the combat started here: https://www.dreamlyrics.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1047470#Post1047470 Mounted speed, without using Dash, is 60. BTW, if the mount gets a reaction can it use Dodge if it is targeted or does it do that on its turn as an action? If so, it gets a move to move 60 then instead of doing a Dash to move another 60 it can use its action to Dodge, which gives anyone attacking it disadvantage on their attacks until its next turn, correct? If so lets go with that for her mount.)
Riding Horse Large beast, unaligned Armor Class 10 Hit Points 13 (2d10+2) Speed 60 ft.
BTW, spell is great, but not when DM rolls 3 out of 4 saves at 15+)
(OOC - OK, so as a mount is able to do a Dodge action, then I presume it moves its normal move and then uses its action to "Dodge", which means it is dodging any attack against it giving all those attacks disadvantage until its next turn. Seems like it should be a fairly standard thing for mounts as long as the mount isn't using Dash, Disengage, or attacking.)
(OOC - DM rolling like that just encourages casters to resort to casting straight damage spells that at least do half damage if saved instead of trying to be inventive. No criticism. You don't control the dice. )
I love the hand-drawn sheet music that is, yes, actually the song. I hadn't listened to/watched the remake all the way through until your comment and yeah, it is pretty incredible.
Originally Posted by Pandemonium
Oh and I hate it when a new edition changes the rules.
I guess Sindar will need a way to cast dispel magic that doesn't involve a Verbal component.
Assuming anyone will ever cast that spell on him again
Originally Posted by Pandemonium
Oh and is there any way that Sindar would be able to figure out where the Silence spell came from?
I believe he has a target for Phatasmal Killer, he had saved for the other boss.
I assume you're asking if you know who the caster was? Given he's to the north and you were looking to the south casting your eldritch blast, I'm thinking you wouldn't have seen the hand motions, although it probably wouldn't be too hard to deduce it. But that spell requires a verbal component, not sure what you mean by "saved" ... and whether that method requires a verbal component.
As a spellcaster who has likely traveled with bards, clerics, or rangers, Davroar would likely have heard of the spell's existence, or be smart enough to equate it to "Darkness" which would have similar effects, just on a different sense. Not having ever cast it himself I don't think he would know the precise range, but any competent spellcaster could likely make a reasonable guess in the 15-25 foot range.
He would not know/detect where the center is, but could probably assume from observing everyone else that they were impacted.
I suspect once he got to the logical step of thinking that moving 25 feet east or west would both get him out of the silence he'd realize that's also the exact area the wind wall is protecting, and utter an expletive (that nobody would hear).
So bottom line, he'd probably be able to guess within about 5 feet where it's centered and within about 10 feet where the boundary likely is, and given that everyone else is shooting arrows or waving swords except this one mysterious dude with a mace, he'd guess who cast it. Although all of this is a guess, without certainty.
I'm fine with you, the player, using the precise knowledge in your tactics, of course.
Sindar has Silence prepared in his daily spell list, so he is familiar as well.
I would assume that sometime in their hours/days traveling together, Sindar would have shared the knowledge of the spell and its effects with Davroar. So really you just have to guess at the center of the AOE.
That should require an arcana check. That's what it's there for
Yeah, thought about that, but gave information based on the DC0 level... there's always an assumption of background communication between characters and if one magic-wielding character in a party has a spell prepared I can't imagine that the topic didn't come up at some point on the road, out of sheer boredom.
The initial response was "as a guess" and an arcana check would have brought "certainty" but I didn't think that made much of a difference in tactics.
OOC: Nep has helpfully pointed out that a statement I made was overly broad and incorrect as stated.
I want to clarify Jaliera's hiding state and its impact. I did research this, relying on this answer (among others) when I made my comment, but only read the first answer. Some things are clear, some aren't.
I said:
Quote
OOC: Unfortunately the ranged shot gave your position away so you can't re-hide in the same spot, as enemies in combat are alert.
To be more precise:
1. Regardless of whether Jaliera can re-hide, the location has been given away. "If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." (PHB, p. 195). So even if the attackers can't see Jaliera, they could target her location.
2. It is possible to re-hide, however, "in combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around...." (PHB p.177). Per sage advice addressing this exact situation, the advice is that the stealth check to re-hide in the same location should be at disadvantage. (The second answer at the RPG SE link clarifies this as well.)
So an updated ruling:
Jaliera may attempt to re-hide. I need a Stealth Check at disadvantage.
Also as I implied in my original reply, this may be a moot point even if she fails the check, if the creature she is sneak-attacking is adjacent to an ally, which may soon be the case for most of her targets.
OOC: To be clear, most important is that stealth prevents Jaliera from being targeted. It also gives her advantage on her attack and adds sneak damage. But she can gain the sneak damage if an ally is adjacent to her target (although, not necessarily with advantage).
1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
Jaliera can't be targeted, but that location can be targeted. The archers could fire an arrow at that grid square. They may not know if Jaliera is still there or has sneakily moved elsewhere, but the location itself is known as "someone shot an arrow from here six seconds ago". If Jaliera is present but unseen the attack would be at disadvantage; if she's moved the attack would be against the bush she was hiding behind, and it might lose some foliage.
(OOC - Re: Jaliera - It would be the same rules as attacking an invisible creature I would think: "Attacks against invisible creatures are at disadvantage unless they can be “seen” by magical means or through blindsight or truesight. In addition, opportunity attacks against the invisible creature can't happen at all without magical means or ways to see without using normal vision" - Player's Handbook Nep - We don't usually play it that way in our games, but it makes more sense once the Rogue reveals himself and Hides again than to just say he is invulnerable to anything but an AOE spell.)
OOC: Thanks Nep and Zeim for all the clarifications.
To avoid beating a dead horse (of which there are now several thanks to Zhu) here's a summary of the above back-and-forth: 1. My original statement "you can't re-hide in the same spot" was incorrect. 2a. Jaliera can re-hide in the same spot with a Stealth check at disadvantage. (This is my judgment call as DM. Other DMs may rule differently.) 2b. Jaliera can move and re-hide in a different spot with a Stealth check. 3. If Jaliera successfully re-hides, her (current) location is unknown and enemies have to guess at her (current) location. However, they are aware of her former location. If they target a location in which Jaliera happens to be (of which the former location is the most likely candidate), the attack roll is at disadvantage. 4. If Jaliera is within reach (melee) of a target but is still hidden, her movement out of reach does not trigger an opportunity attack.
Hey all... up until now I have been measuring distance on diagonals following the "every other diagonal move counts 2x" rule.
However, since: 1. Our combat map is on Roll20, 2. Roll20 provides a lovely ruler tool to measure distance, and 3. The ruler tool uses the formula max(horizontal,vertical) to measure distance and 4. More than one of you has made movements based on the tool's measurements that I didn't think were worth calling out, so it seems that "ruler" tool is in widespread use...
I'm "officially" stating that I am switching movement/ranged attack to follow the above rules, so we're all being consistent.
TLDR: Feel free to use whatever the ruler on Roll20 says. Your movements and ranged attacks are limited by a box/square rather than a sphere/circle.
Just describe how you want to be moved and I'll make sure to post more screen caps for your benefit. QQ: do you want to follow Zhu and Kriv eastward to get closer to the other half of the party, particularly since Zhu has just BBQ'd half of your targets?
(OOC - Re: Jaliera - It would be the same rules as attacking an invisible creature I would think: "Attacks against invisible creatures are at disadvantage unless they can be “seen” by magical means or through blindsight or truesight. In addition, opportunity attacks against the invisible creature can't happen at all without magical means or ways to see without using normal vision" - Player's Handbook Nep - We don't usually play it that way in our games, but it makes more sense once the Rogue reveals himself and Hides again than to just say he is invulnerable to anything but an AOE spell.)
Well, that's half the rule Read on. But first, since you're playing a rogue in our home game and my brother is currently running, I'll let him come up with this. I promise to remember when I'm running again
This topic is one of the most confusing and argued in the game. There's a whole long discussion about the subject here: here in Sage Advice.
When ruling on area of effect attacks if a target is in the area it always works unless you must target a creature and you can't see that creature. Of course, I can't think of a single AOE spell that targets a creature. It's usually "a point you can see". There are a few spells like Sleetstorm where you don't need to "see" the point you target, which is quite interesting. And unless the wall is made of lead, if Superman's behind a wall and someone throws kryptonite against that wall, he's going to feel it.
In combat, targeting what you cannot see is really tricky to rule on. It needs to be looked at as both from the DM and player perspective. As a DM, if a creature turns invisible and then moves I'm going to "hide" the token on my VTT and ask "which square are you targeting?" Then I might ask to roll with disadvantage. If the attacker picks the right spot, and managed to roll both dice over the AC, it would be a hit. However, is that fair? As a DM I always know where a player's token is. I guess saying that you roll with disadvantage no matter which direction you point your arrow at is fair if it's applied to both DM and player. It's ridiculous in logical real world.
But if you read the PHB rule carefully, it implies that the scenario I just stated is exactly what should happen. It's the bolded clause in the rule which is the kicker:
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Unseen Attackers and Targets Combatants often try to escape their foes' notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness.
When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target's location correctly.
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden--both unseen and unheard--when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.
With melee your chances of targeting the correct square is basically 1:8 (the 8 squares around you). With a range weapon it's 1:N where N is the area of the range of your weapon. It's basically the same odds as me getting a hole-in-one on a 120 yard par 3 and I can see that target!
So, in effect, I, as a DM, will handle by letting PCs try and guess where the target is and as a DM I won't even try.
Well that also depends. If a hidden creature pops up out of hiding and attacks it reveals itself. It then cannot be hiding while it is moving. It can only hide AFTER its move is finished, in which case any enemies who noticed it know exactly which square it moved to, they just can't see it now and so they would automatically attack the proper spot, just with disadvantage.
For the record, I'm 100% in agreement with Neptune's post above. I'll just post some commentary here:
1. As I've said a few times, my original "you can't hide in the same spot" was in error. You can.
2. The location from which you fired is known. This changes the "1:8" and "1:N" chances Nep cited, because (a) there may be fewer than N hiding places on the grid, or (b) the shooter might have an especially good hiding spot they don't want to leave.
3. Enemies in combat are alert, which is why there needs to be at least a Stealth check to hide in combat.
4. It's a subjective DM call whether the same spot confers disadvantage on the stealth check. Certainly if it's the only hiding place nearby. Likely not if every place is equally hide-able. I haven't really specified that on our battle grid as I didn't think it was very important, but mentally assumed more sparse vegetation (as the map kinda shows). As such, I'm leaning more towards disadvantage. It's entirely reasonable for other DMs to rule on this differently.
5. This is all a fun conversation but the way things are about to play out, is likely to have zero actual impact in the game.
... there is also the fact that many spots that are good for hiding also may provide partial or full cover......., such as popping up from behind a wall or a wagon and shooting and then dropping back down.
I think you were there. And if so you might recall that at Gencon, Lingo (my rogue) was in an encounter with a beholder. While it zapped everyone else, Lingo would take 2 steps into the open, fire at the beholder, take a few steps back behind a wall and hid. It's very doable.
The other important point I forgot to make is that Jaliera (and any rogue) needs to hide behind something. Lingo didn't need walls, bolders or trees because he was a Lightfoot Halfling and they have this racial feature:
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Naturally Stealthy. You can attempt to hide even when you are obscured only by a creature that is at least one size larger than you.
This racial feature underscores the need to hide behind or near something. You can't just stand out in the open and say "I'm hiding."
[ooc: Looking at some options: Can Davroar wild shape into a grizzly bear being surrounded as he is? If Davroar wild shapes into a small cat, can he escape south-east direction from the ring of bandits and mounts, or will he be subject to attacks of opportunity from all that surround him? My other option I'm thinking is turning into a badger or another quick digging creature and escape underground. Can you use 'dash' while digging to gain extra depth and avoid attacks of opportunity? ]
Can Davroar wild shape into a grizzly bear being surrounded as he is?
OOC: Yes, you can wild shape into a large creature. Squeezing rules would apply:
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A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
Originally Posted by Dugan
If Davroar wild shapes into a small cat, can he escape south-east direction from the ring of bandits and mounts, or will he be subject to attacks of opportunity from all that surround him?
Creatures fill the entire 5x5 cube, so there's not really any space to escape. (Technically speaking the don't "fill" the space but they "control" it completely.) (EDIT: Yes you could escape because the enemy would be two sizes larger than you. However, you would trigger opportunity attacks, unless you used the disengage action. But using Wild Shape takes an action so you can't do both on the same turn.)
But speaking of small cats, a Tressym is now a possibility and its stat block says "If pursued by larger flying creatures, they will go to ground and seek a small hole or crevice to conceal themselves in." I think a suitably small creature in the middle of a bunch of horses, could effectively hide.
Originally Posted by Dugan
My other option I'm thinking is turning into a badger or another quick digging creature and escape underground. Can you use 'dash' while digging to gain extra depth and avoid attacks of opportunity?
Yes you can dash while burrowing and double your burrowing speed, but burrowing is movement. You'd need to create a situation where you didn't move on your own, such as falling into a hole you (or someone else) created, and I don't think a badger can make that big a hole.
(OOC: Just Curious but what is the likelihood that mounts that just lost their riders due to a yelling ogre with a very large club and other means actually staying put and not running off? out of being spooked?)
(OOC: Just Curious but what is the likelihood that mounts that just lost their riders due to a yelling ogre with a very large club and other means actually staying put and not running off? out of being spooked?)
OOC: Good question, and I've already been thinking about that. 1. Officially by the rules, they are now independent mounts and under DM (that's me!) control. So it's whatever I arbitrarily decide! 2. Glork may be yelling but they can't hear him It's possible Davroar wild shapes into a creature horses are scared of, though. Like a spider. 3. They aren't doing anything until their turn in initiative, which they rolled a 3; but since they already moved this round it's going to be another whole cycle before they do anything except reactions. 4. If another one of the mounted attackers is dehorsed, they would obey simple orders from them to allow them to remount. 5. They're rather easy to kill, and that may be a tactic of one of the melee people to free their trapped allies. 6. If none of the above situations occurs, it's more likely than not that they'd use their disengage actions and move away from the combat.
[OOC: So it is Sindar's turn, correct? I don't know the rules of disengaging, but it seems he has open space behind him in the sense the horses are without riders and control. I think unless he can move without provoking enough attacks of opportunity to kill him, which I am pretty sure he can't, his only viable option is to attack with his rapier. Is there a defense option that would improve his AC while using his weapon?]
No, still Davroar, waiting for Dugan to decide what to do.
Originally Posted by Pandemonium
I don't know the rules of disengaging, but it seems he has open space behind him in the sense the horses are without riders and control.
The mounts and their riders are separate creatures. After the rider is killed the horse becomes an "independent mount" under control of the DM. See my answer to Miales 2 paragraphs above on what's likely to happen in the future. Even if they don't attack, they're probably going to restrict your movement for this turn and your next one, unless someone kills one, and even then the others can do opportunity attacks. If by "behind him" you mean one square to the east, then yes, that's a reasonable movement.
Originally Posted by Pandemonium
I think unless he can move without provoking enough attacks of opportunity to kill him, which I am pretty sure he can't, his only viable option is to attack with his rapier. Is there a defense option that would improve his AC while using his weapon?
Not that I'm aware of. My thoughts on Sindar's best options are (in my newbie-DM guess in order of how good a choice they are, but I may be wrong): - Don't attack, and use the dodge action. This would give enemies disadvantage normally; at present the mounted riders have advantage so it would negate that and they'd attack normally; it would give disadvantage to ranged attacks from everyone else... there are three archers and the combat cleric who cast the silence spell, who may (or may not) target Sindar. - Use the disengage action (which would prevent opportunity attacks) and move one square east. This would take you out of melee reach of 2 of the riders, leaving you with only one likely to attack you, and the lovely smell of horses on your other three sides that you will one day compose an epic song about, if you live to tell the story. Realize that these riders actually have had 2 ranged attacks and that may be worse than a single non-advantaged melee. - Attack someone (and the rapier looks like the best weapon) and attempt to inflict some damage on one of the riders, hoping your allies do more damage to it. This could be a futile and stupid gesture but it might feel good.
I think unless he can move without provoking enough attacks of opportunity to kill him, which I am pretty sure he can't, his only viable option is to attack with his rapier. Is there a defense option that would improve his AC while using his weapon?
Cutting Words - As a reaction when a creature (that's not immune to being charmed) you can see within 60 ft. makes an attack roll, ability check, or damage roll, you can expend one use of Bardic Inspiration, roll the die, and subtract the number from the creature's roll. You can do so after the roll but before knowing the result.
Hmmm. Not quite what you were asking for, but you always have this in your back pocket. In a single round PCs get to do an action, bonus action and move action on their turn. They ALSO get one reaction per turn. An attack of opportunity is one type (the most common) reaction. But this is also a reaction.
Also, to be clear, disengage is a full action for all character classes other than for rogues and other character that might have cunning action. Cunning action lets a rogue use dash, disengage and stealth as bonus actions.
you learn how to use your wit to distract confuse, and otherwise sap the confidence and competence of others.
The feature doesn't specify that the words are "verbal" so if you can channel your inner mime I would totally allow this based on a suitable music-less and voice-less bit of bard entertainment.
(UPDATE): Hmm... the feature description does also say:
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The creature is immune if it can’t hear you or if it’s immune to being charmed.
The "can't hear you" does seem to imply that it requires sound. Still, I think I'd allow it if it's entertaining enough.
AquaDyne, I did find this link on movement, so I would think changing into a cat (tiny) would be able to escape through the riderless horses (large) on his right. But I figure best to try and engage at least one bandit so they all do not gang-up on Sindar.
OOC: Ah, you are correct. I completely forgot about the "two sizes smaller" bit. Yes you could move and if you disengaged you could avoid opportunity attacks and abandon Sindar.
Which I see you didn't.... but then realized disengage is an action that you couldn't take after wild shape since you only have one action (I think). Moot point as your claw attack missed at AC 13.
I am certain Cutting Words has a verbal component, so no, I don't believe that is an option.
RAW, true. Because flipping people off in combat is amusing, however, I'm going to permit it on the melee attacks where the deafened attackers can see it.
Just having fun AquaDyne. Seeing the funny video from Moana I was thinking Davroar might have a similar encrusted shell of gold and gems, but alas I guess not.
So a question about the D&D Beyond PC Creation thingie. I use Roll20 as the repository for the most up to date version of my pc as well as doing all of my spell casting, distance and AOE measurements, attack and initiative rolls, and getting a tactical map view. Are we saying that once we put our pcs into D&D Beyond I will need to maintain it in both Roll20 and D&D Beyond as I won't have any map or measurements in Beyond so will still need to continue to use Roll20 I believe?
Zeim, The import is from DnDBeyond into Roll20 or Forge-VTT. So start using DnDBeyond as the repository you work from. You can roll from DnDBeyond into Roll20 too. Once you create your PC in DnDBeyond I'll get together with you to show you how it works. It's a cool tool.
For now, though, I really just want one place to go to see everyone's character sheets. I'm OK if there's an auto-updated Roll20 pdf link that can get generated... is there?
And I'll repeat, there's no rush on this. This is just an old fart trying to learn as he goes and asking for some help making it easier to find info.
We do use ForgeVTT in our long time "FTF" game. It is nice and since it links to D&D Beyond it would resolve the issue of using multiple tools to see a map, see a pc sheet, roll spells and attacks, and measure distance. Of course we use ForgeVTT together as a real time virtual game so I am not certain whether players have access to the maps and can take actions asynchronously without the DM present.
You can see Zhu's updated sheet on Roll20. As DM you should have access to all the pcs there. I do not know if a download to pdf is possible. Nep?
Yeah, having the map locked is a problem. We play asynchronously here and I (as a player) would need access to the map to do measurements, move my pc, cast spells and do other things without the DM present.
Yeah, having the map locked is a problem. We play asynchronously here and I (as a player) would need access to the map to do measurements, move my pc, cast spells and do other things without the DM present.
Looks like there are add-ons that allow un-pausing on various triggers that might fit the bill?
I maintain an AWS server for fun and could easily self-host something on there.
Hell ... I couldn't even get it to let me log in with my google account <sigh> FWIW I had similar problems when one of my games started using one of the other similar sites. Maybe I am too old to hang out here any more <sigh>
(OOC - 20 foot radius? Seems like 200 foot radius on the map image? That spell should get just a couple of people in its AOE unless it was cast as a 9th level spell? Curious as typically that spell works best indoors as its AOE is very small for an outdoor setting.)
Ummm wow... ok. So had to look that one up. Turns out Pale Moon is a close cousin to Firefox.
Firefox. Found this on a message board:
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UPDATE: Found the problem, the latest version of Firefox has automatic cookie blocking enabled, I was able to fix the login issue by following this guide: Click on Menu and select Settings Go to Privacy & Security Under Browser Privacy > Enhanced Tracking Protection Choose Custom Click the dropdown arrow for cookies and select “cross-site tracking cookies, and isolate other cross-site cookies” Restart Firefox
(OOC - 20 foot radius? Seems like 200 foot radius on the map image? That spell should get just a couple of people in its AOE unless it was cast as a 9th level spell?)
Maybe. Maybe not. It's large enough to carry a rider, though. You'll probably figure it out who cast the spell in upcoming RP.
Originally Posted by AJ
and if so is its last known location after moving but before casting within 120ft of Kriv?
Yes, the 16 grid squares it takes up are within 120 feet of Kriv, but he'd be shooting at the location from memory since he can't even see 5 feet in front of him, much less 120, and a DM might rule that he randomly hits anyone in the fog cloud with some probability.
Just some context for everyone. The bandit battle is essentially over: you've killed over half of them and would probably kill the rest on this turn, and they're going to be retreating if still alive. We could slog through in initiative order or... you can all post your intentions for your next turn and we can resolve in RP. That way if you really want the satisfaction of those final hits we can make it happen.
Like we know Glork is swinging randomly at the nearest melee target, Jaliera's cautiously backing away from the melee, Bern's going to try to mop up attackers near him and Kriv is still trying to decide if shooting at a gargantuan bird is in the party's best interests.
Note: per the rules, attacks at a target you can't see are at disadvantage, but the target is similarly unable to see your attack which in theory neutralizes that and makes it a normal roll. I think this situation (a massive fog cloud where nearly everyone can't see each other) is one the rules don't really cover well so I'm using judgment on blind ranged shots to attempt to be more "realistic" (as if a bird with the wingspan of a 747 is realistic, but you know what I mean).
My thought was that Fog Cloud is Concentration, and that Scorching Ray gives three chances albeit with disadvantage to pile some damage on the bird, and that a battlefield control spell advantageous to the opposition implies hostile intent. Disrupt the concentration, disrupt the spell. The size of the potential enemy is problematic, but the party has driven a dragon off before and is largely in decent order with plenty of resources.
I assume Dispel won't affect the fog spell because it is already in evidence, ie no longer magic.
The way I read the rules, dispel would have worked but required a DC 16 check with your spellcasting ability.
Originally Posted by AJ
My thought was that Fog Cloud is Concentration, and that Scorching Ray gives three chances albeit with disadvantage to pile some damage on the bird, and that a battlefield control spell advantageous to the opposition implies hostile intent. Disrupt the concentration, disrupt the spell. The size of the potential enemy is problematic, but the party has driven a dragon off before and is largely in decent order with plenty of resources.
The bird is CR11 and does an average of 50 damage (multiattack 27 and 23) and has 248 HP. Not to mention the damage the CR9 rider could inflict throwing rocks with an average 30 damage. Would be a fun fight!
Originally Posted by Pandemonium
ChatGPT for song lyrics. It is a GREAT time to be a bard!
Yeah, immediately thought we cannot win a fight here. And I believe if the "magic" needs concentration to maintain then it can be dispelled, with a successful roll of course. It is not a natural fog.
Only the supercilious attitude. Ie, “if you don’t want to be hurt while we destroy your villages get out of the way.” The fact that they buried something there a thousand or more years ago does not give them the right to kill and destroy to regain it. Again, negotiate and talk. Otherwise you are nothing but a bunch of brutes who don’t deserve anyone to take your side.
Actually, since they live thousands of years... It makes me think they do feel entitled. Zhu particularly ignores that point because she doesn't like it.
I think you played her well. Not the wisest choice in an information discussion. The giantess was being forthcoming without having to do so. Yes, the information was one-sided and completely with bias. But it was information nonetheless.
Just made me laugh, and I wanted to share that OOC:
Well, remember as an Eladrin Zhu’s lifespan is almost 1000 years so she is as long lived as Giants. The difference seems to be that she understand that others are shorter lived and what that means while the giantess doesn’t seem to care.
Probably due to her decades as part of the Spellguard in Silverymoon living among humans, whereas I suspect the Giants are more isolated. She just really doesn’t like those who believe they’re entitled to abuse those weaker than themselves.
Looking things up, her lifetime is actually twice as long as a Giants so she well understands the concept. Still, entitled brutishness and disdain for others is abhorrent to her. Or, to put it bluntly., the Giant's comment that "Hey, we pissed here once a few thousand years ago so like a dog we've marked this territory as ours forever."
"Hey, we pissed here once a few thousand years ago so like a dog we've marked this territory as ours forever."
To be fair, the giants occupied the land from -31000 to -30,000 DR until -2550 DR, about 28,000 years. Humanoids only came to the land about 1000 years ago but were mostly unorganized until recently. The Lord's Alliance is less than 200 years old. Triboar, where you started and encountered the Fire Giants digging, was founded in 1357, less than 100 years ago. Phandalin, where you started the previous campaign, was nothing more than about 50 people until less than 60 years ago.
So, yeah, most of the giants past middle age remember this land before there were cities or a Lord's Alliance, and they grew up hearing stories of the greatness of Ostoria, and how their deity has rejected them until they reclaim its former glory.
I don't disagree on that perspective, from their point of view. Zhu just feels their point of view needs to be adjusted to account for actual events and not dwell on past glories. After all, the Elves had continent spanning Empires thousands of years ago too and she doesn't feel that newcommers are encroaching on lands she and her people should still be able to claim.
Well, officially: Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat (1489 DR) Storm King’s Thunder (1490 or 1491 DR) <--- you are here Lost Mine of Phandelver (Starter Set) (1491 DR) <--- you are time travelers
I know at least one character has mentioned a character associated with that Tiamat campaign, in the current RP thread.
Its fascinating (to me at least) that after being defeated in the war and having dozens of dragons killed (presumably both good and evil ones) in it, that dragons are so quickly ready to get into another conflict. Dragons are, after all, very long lived and have a very low birthrate.
Its fascinating (to me at least) that after being defeated in the war and having dozens of dragons killed (presumably both good and evil ones) in it, that dragons are so quickly ready to get into another conflict. Dragons are, after all, very long lived and have a very low birthrate.
The first Giant-Dragon war lasted 1000 years.
Also, what you've seen is the Giant perspective. Maybe the dragons aren't a threat, but the Giants perceive them as such. Maybe the Giants see this latest "war" (or maybe a battle?) as a wake-up call. Maybe it's just some dragons and not all the dragons. Maybe it's all a lie to make excuses. Maybe what's happening is an after-effect of the war.
(OOC - Interesting that none of the penalties associated with learning a new language apply when someone in the party is teaching another person. Of course, 10 game weeks could be years of real time.)
(OOC: Ten for Davroar and Sindar, eight for Jaliera, seven for Kriv respectively, at a total cost of 875GP for full party fluency.)
(OOC - Yeah, cost is questionable. I presume that is for paying a teacher. If party member is teaching it is likely cost free.)
OOC: I think the cost is intended to prevent freebies which may unbalance the game. If everyone in the party has the same skills (which they could teach each other given enough time) then nobody's special. I haven't dug into it but I'm sure there are spells or feats or other things that people have to earn or spend "points" on. Apparently teaching another party member can only be done one-on-one as well, which doesn't really make sense either, if everyone's in a group!
All that said, I'm sure between us all we can find a happy medium here. Probably not to hard for most of the party to quickly learn "basic Giant" while a more detailed understanding would be available to those who already know the language from background/chargen/feat/use of spells/etc.
Yes, One problem with D&D 5e (although I don't think its particular to 5e) is that once you choose your initial starting skills, that's it. You never get any more as part of the levelling up process, only by having someone teach you, and the rules for that make it fairly hard to impossible to do. I have played in campaigns where my pc levelled up from 1st level to 20th that took less time that it would take to learn one new skill or a new language.
I always felt that adding skills should be part of the levelling up process. Even if it was slow (like 1 new skill every 3 or even every 5 levels), at least it gives you the ability to expand.
What's actually worse is your class skills (like spellcasting, attacks, class abilities, etc) improve as you level up (presumably thru use and practice), but your existing Skills (like Athletics, Nature, Stealth, etc) never do. They have a place on the pc sheet for you to be first "Trained" and then "Specialized" in skills but once you use your initial allotment/selection of Skills you can never improve.
I think that's a limitation of the 1 to 20 range in D&D, Zeim. The modifier from your ability score is already pretty beafy and when it goes up, all skills under its umbrella go up. Then skills you're proficient in increase with the proficiency bonus. There's not really room for them to increase beyond that because after a point it becomes near automatic success.
Zeim, You're correct that there's no "direct" way to increase skills but indirectly, there is. For instance, you may forego the ASI for a feat. In this case "Linguist" which gives you the ability to learn 3 languages. You also benefit when you go up levels when your proficiency bonus goes up so does your proficient skills, as well as the stat bumps.
One thing I've done (it was in this game too) in my "other" FTF game is enforce downtime at changes in tier. When PCs go from 4th to 5th (when we switched from LMP to SKT), 10th to 11th and 15th to 16th, they will have a break in time to do this.
I think it's more absurd that PCs go from virtually useless 1st level characters to near godhood in several months in-character game time!
Yes, agreed, but to me it doesn't make sense that a Rogue/Arcane Trickster, for example, suddenly knows how to cast magic spells (with no required mentor, studying, or practice) when he reaches 4th level but a Wizard with an Intelligence of 18 (or any other character for that matter) doesn't automatically gain the ability to learn a new skill or language at any level without weeks of game time spent training.
If a pc gets class stuff for going up a level without any required game mechanic to justify it, they should gain the ability to learn a new skill. If the system doesn't want them to go beyond "Specialized" (to Nem's point about auto success), that's fine, but a Rogue is allowed to be Specialized at first level but no one else can ever be without spending their Stat bump on a Feat. And no one can learn anything new after first level without the clunky mechanics in the DMG/PHB.
Enforcing downtime is a good means of trying to even things out, but other than the game Nep did it in I've never seen it done.
The whole 'thing' about 'leveling up' is that the character 'learns' skills and such through the training that ... normally ... happens 'outside' the actual 'game play'. It would take a =lot= of work from the GM to try and 'play' through all of that!
Yes, but it happens instantaneously. There is no required time a pc has to set aside to gain new powers for a new level, and some of those powers (like spells for a Rogue) make no sense to just 'get' instantly without work. So, lets be even handed. If you can get new class powers with no study and no required time spent doing anything (effectively, one second you don't have them and the next second, right after you kill a Kobold and get the last 5 xps you need, you suddenly have a bunch of new things you can do) why not a new skill slot from time to time? Either that, or require a pc to take out study time in order to gain a level once they have the xps. In fact, if I recall correctly, one of the early versions of D&D actually DID require you to take time out to study for your new level after you had the xps you needed.
You have to admit we did not do any of that when we played Horde of the Dragon Queen from level 1 to level 20.
What you're doing makes more sense, but its not a standard thing. I am going by the standard rules, not homebrew.
So, in the standard rules, there is no explanation why skills are treated differently than class abilities. Nothing forces you to use downtime or to tell the DM that you are practicing for things you are about to get in advance to explain why you gained new class abilities. So, why aren't skills treated the same way?
For example, I don't take Nature as a Skill at First Level. Then, I happen to study and observe all sorts of stuff about Nature as we spend several levels travelling thru the forests. When I gain a new Tier, why can't I get the Nature Skill for free? Why does a Rogue, with zero training, practice, or comments to the DM suddenly just knows how to cast spells when he reaches 4th level and chooses Arcane Trickster? It is not something he would be doing normally at levels 1-4 (if the pc did not specify to the DM he was trying to learn it) and so it makes no sense that it would be something that he would get better at. Spellcasting is not part of ANY of his abilities. It just magically appears. Whereas in the Nature example at least I made an effort to learn to explain why I would gain a new Skill.
When we started HOTDQ we just learned 5e. Yes, it's "home brew". Yes, that's how we're doing it here. But RAW does provide avenues (although narrow) to improve skills.
They are onerous and should be (IMO) automatic, or at a minimum just like class advancement skills. Your method is closer to reasonable than the basic rules are.
Well ... it depends <weg> on what you want in your game. I had a F2F game ... back in the days when I had that going on ... and we spent a =lot= of 'game time' playing through all of that stuff. On the one hand it =could= get 'tedious', but on the other hand we got to do a lot to make our characters our own.
MikeD, it fine, but your pcs got their class skills the instant the had enough xps for the new level didn't they? If you made them study for both, fine. Or not study for both, again fine. My entire point is it should be consistent. Either you get both (Class Abilities and new Skills) for free or you get neither, without extra work.
How do you portray gaining new class skills that have zero to do with anything you have done in that class before so cannot be explained by using your class abilities? Same thing.
it happens during all that 'time' that passes when not in actual play
Ideally that is when it happens but an excellent point was made. 5th has made it nearly impossible for actual character growth outside of combat related skills. The characters grow stronger one dimensionally while taking nothing into account where they grow as people (loose term) outside of combat.
5th has made it nearly impossible for actual character growth outside of combat related skills. The characters grow stronger one dimensionally while taking nothing into account where they grow as people (loose term) outside of combat.
Which is the job DMs take on.
Every player in this game has a back story and goals and intertwined story arcs. Most (all?) are non-combat based.
Curious how you would wrap a system around "growing as a person/humanoid"?
5th has made it nearly impossible for actual character growth outside of combat related skills.
I don't know if that is a true statement. Aside from what Aquadyne said about it being up to the DM, there is an entire chapter of the DM guide which expands on the chapter in the Player's Handbook, about downtime activities. Many DMs ignore those chapters. I have not but neither have I over-played that aspect.
However, Miales, I don't think Zeim was complaining about acquiring skills like blacksmithing or becoming a seamstress. He was focused on skills we roll for, like Arcana, Religion and Stealth.
And Zeim, yes, I developed my downtime house rule because I agree with you that a paladin that suddenly decides to become a warlock is kind of absurd without training and a story. But the game has become loosey-goosey with that.
Yes. My point is simply consistency. Either give new Skills (the ones you mention Nep. I could care less about being a Blacksmith, but becoming Skilled in Stealth or Perception could be critical) for free every Tier, just like pcs get new class skills for free every tier, or make everything, including new class skills, require study.
Any chance for a circumstance bonus for Kriv, given his longstanding tradition of being unflinching in the face of fire due to his resistance as a Dragonborn, as well as the fact he's wearing armour proofed against dragon breath in particular, thus diminishing the relative perceived threat of the illusion?
Any chance for a circumstance bonus for Kriv, given his longstanding tradition of being unflinching in the face of fire due to his resistance as a Dragonborn, as well as the fact he's wearing armour proofed against dragon breath in particular, thus diminishing the relative perceived threat of the illusion?
yeah, because of all humanoids, the dragonborn know that all dragons are badasses and we all have to be [cautious]
.
So the initial answer is 'no' but does Kriv have the Frightful Presence feat? If so I think that knowledge might help his wisdom and I might consider at least allowing advantage on the save.
I have been doing a lot of thinking about this... lots of things a Dragon can do to hurt you other than fire or breath.
Assuming combat that Kriv might be envisioning, before its turn it could take a legendary action to make a Wing attack (DC22 dex save or take 15 avg dam and be knocked prone). Its usual attack is a standard bite+claws multiattack would give 2d10+8 and two 2d6+8 bludgeoning damage (avg 42 dam). So that's avg 57 dam (min of 40 dam even with all 1's) without even breathing. For reference, Kriv has 42 total HP on the stat sheet I'm looking at.
As the tweet exchange showed, as a Dragonborn, Kriv might even be more knowledgeable about the possible threat and more afraid of it if he were to believe it was real, even with his breath/fire protections.
Which goes back to the Wis save.
So my ruling for at least this initial frightened check is no bonus/advantage for Kriv. Sorry.
Note that more things might happen associated with this rune y'all have triggered, depending on how everyone responds, and I will take Kriv's protection into account for those, if relevant.
I will add that there are magics and special abilities that would give Kriv resistance or advantage to fear of any type it would have been an attribute of the item or special ability.
Thanks for the link to the update. I need to try to get all those links in the pinned thread with everyone's sheets, 'cause my organization sucks. Looks like you currently have 53 which is still under the 57 average.
For everyone, please let me try to add some clarifications here.
TLDR: This is a puzzle, not combat. Please have fun roleplaying your reactions. Nobody's going to die. If you really want that stone, it's not going to be as simple as using a crowbar, though.
Summary if you're still reading: You can try to figure out how to get the stone, or you can leave it alone (like millenia of adventurers before you). Standing there and staring fear in the face is not a viable solution, and vague threats are intended to dissuade you from that course of action. This is probably going to require a team effort and the RP is headed that way, yay.
Nitty gritty details for the few of you who really care: I'm using the Adult Red Dragon's "Frightful Presence" as the basis for the effect you're seeing, in terms of game mechanics and rulings. Some problems with that as written is that you can "wait it out" and it's based on range and there's immunity from it after a save. I've borrowed a little (specifically the line-of-sight bit) from XGtE's "Illusory Dragon" which is pretty kick-ass. But a harder challenge may mean a more valuable reward, no? Maybe. Do you even know what the other stone does?
The smart thing to do is to back off out of the effect. The stubborn and prideful thing to do is to refuse to take a single step back, unsuccessfully wrestle with the unquenchable voice of internal panic and try to solve things anyway.
But while frightened, ability checks are rolled at disadvantage (for both). This may be the lowest contested shoving contest in history
Is Zindra in a position where shoving would put her next to the wall? We never set things up but given the two of them facing fear so awesomely, I think I'll say this works under the Rule of Cool
So I may actually have 5 minutes to breathe shortly. Were we supposed recreate the pcs in D&D Beyond from Roll20? If so, is there a game/campaign setup in D&D Beyond for us to use, or just create the pc stand-alone?
Zhu is in the room. I would presume once you've saved from a particular Illusion that you don't need to save again (or at a minimum have a large bonus)?
Zhu is in the room. I would presume once you've saved from a particular Illusion that you don't need to save again (or at a minimum have a large bonus)?
Moving this discussion OOC.
I'm trying to keep this both as simple as possible but also not letting it get unbalanced to the point where if at first you don't succeed then you can try, try again. As the Genie of the Lamp said, "Ixnay on the wishing for more wishes."
I am basing the effects off actual spells/conditions/traits, but these are designed for turn-based combat. So for example, a dragon's frightful presence lasts for only a minute and if you either outlast it or save against it, you're immune for 24 hours. This is fine in combat, in which you can't just stand around and drink tea for a minute to neutralize the impact.
And this is powerful ancient magic protecting the stone and the dragon in the mural is one of their pantheon of gods (the chaotic evil fire one) and it's lasted here thousands of years because it's not supposed to be easy to remove. So can you try things again? Sure. They aren't going to get easier and may get harder and the penalties for failure might get worse.
I will say that at this point this needs to be a team effort. Just poking around with one person trying something without taking any prep work is unlikely to solve this. I had really hoped the magical combination of Sindar's singing and pushing others toward the mural to get around the "can't approach voluntarily" requirement would be the solution. I might even award inspiration when this is all over.
Some thoughts to leave you with in summary: - Come up with a team plan and execute it. - Make your next effort your best one. Every failed attempt may escalate the penalties and difficulty until it's nearly impossible. - You already know you'll need to combat fear, and that you may need multiple people near the stone to do something with it. You've figured out one way to do that, but I've just looked at everyone's sheets and see at least three other characters with abilities to neutralize this particular illusionary evil source of fear (one of which is an area effect). Combine one person neutralizing the negative and another person doing something to confer advantage, and you've got a winning combination. - Do you really want this stone? Do you know what it does? You've been hauling around the other stone for a while without investigating it. Maybe it's not worth the effort. Or maybe it is.
I'm doing my best to keep "in character" on asks on the costs of various things.
We also are in a format where we aren't really keeping track of such stuff.
So please do assume that unless it's made obvious in the post that things are more/less expensive than normal, that any costs are "normal/standard/expected".
That seems reasonable. I felt like the stabling was a reasonable price. My mental aside for Sindar was to remember being very, very poor living on the streets at a point in his life. His fortunes have changed shall we say.
On the current Doppelganger thing, any chance to make an Arcana or Nature or History roll to see if anyone knows details?
Yes, there's a chance. Roll for the chance.
But seriously... if you want to know a specific thing, ask a question and make an appropriate roll (probably Arcana if it's "what can they do" based or History if it's "what have they done" based). Don't expect a lore-dump on a generic "tell me more about doppelgangers" roll though.
It's also worth remembering this isn't the first time this matter has come up. The Doppelganger has been a known issue since the previous campaign, there is a veritable treasure trove of information we have already been given about them, from Phandelin, Triboar and our various private discussions. Rereading is fun and helpful here, I'll be going over the old threads at some point myself.
I'm still DM'ing a lot of stuff and we haven't split parties yet.... but hopefully most of you are aware that in the near future we'll be temporarily parting ways with two teams of five, reuniting only when we've killed off enough to make the combination... uh, wait, sorry, am I revealing too much? Ok... yeah, joking. Maybe.
Anyway... just wanted to clarify a point. When I'm posting as Aubric, I'm a player, not the DM. I appreciate your paranoia that every interaction is part of a plot, but... well... that's up to Neptune.
As Aubric (and whatever portion of the party he ends up joining) I'll be subject to Nep's whims. As far as other NPCs, they're still me DM'ing things and leading you to a hopefully exciting holiday season.
Aqua - Have you predetermined the split or is it up to each pc to decide where they are heading? Zhu has business in Silverymoon so she'd go with whichever group can include that on their itinerary.
I think Nep has started PMs with each group. The Emerald Enclave trio have a specific task and will have two tag-alongs. Everyone else is in the other group.
But as I mentioned: 1. The 3 in the Emerald Enclave have a task. I'm DM'ing that group. Two more will join them and that may have been discussed in recent RP. 2. I'm joining the game in the other group Nep is DM'ing.
I don't think it's officially set in stone which two will join the EE group, but there's two that Nep and I think it will be. I expect we could be convinced otherwise.
Let's try and clear up the fog a bit. There's a natural division and I think you'll see it makes some sense. Individual missions and objectives helped make it simple.
There are 3 members of the Emerald Enclave: Bern, Davroar and Zindra. They are open about that. Jaliera is not about to leave Davroar's side and she's friends with Pavel. There's that five and since the doppelganger is Bern's problem, and I'm playing Zindra that quintet will be Aquadyne's to deal with.
There are several in the party with reasons to track down Forkbeard and make their way to Everlund and eventually Silverymoon. Zhu, Kriv, Sindar, Arus and Aubric will head the other way and will have to deal with me a DM.
This is not designed to be a permanent break up. Meri and Pippin head one way, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli head elsewhere and Frodo goes off with Samwise. Eventually they find their way back to each other.
Hope you're all enjoying your holidays! Two OOC notes for you.
1. As Aubric (remember he's PC, not NPC!) I've described him using small ducks to mark the map. You may be interested to know that my daughter participated in one of those white-elephant gift exchanges and ended up with 100 miniature ducks which have infested my house. I'm finding them everywhere. The kids are having fun "hiding them" (not really hidden, just appearing in odd places like atop light switches, gazing at artwork, surrounding my whiskey bar, etc.) all over the place. It's worse than elf-on-a-shelf. It reminds me of this brilliant sketch which is probably where they got the idea.
2. As your friendly GM, I'm offering you as a Christmas/Hannukah/Midwinter/Festivus gift, this tidbit about identifying items that you may or may not find any use for while you're otherwise bored sitting around an inn. From the Dungeon Master's Guide page 136:
Quote
Identifying a Magic Item
Some magic items are indistinguishable from their non magical counterparts, whereas other magic items display their magical nature conspicuously. Whatever a magic item’s appearance, handling the item is enough to give a character a sense that something is extraordinary about it. Discovering a magic item’s properties isn't automatic, however.
The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item's properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does. Sometimes a magic item carries a clue to its properties. The command word to activate a ring might be etched in tiny letters inside it, or a feathered design might suggest that its a ring of feather falling.
Wearing or experimenting with an item can also offer hints about its properties. For example, if a character puts on a ring of jumping, you could say. "Your steps feel strangely springy." Perhaps the character then jumps up and down to see what happens. You then say the character jumps unexpectedly high.
Variant; More Difficult Identification
If you prefer magic items to have a greater mystique, consider removing the ability to identify the properties of a magic item during a short rest, and require the identify spell, experimentation, or both to reveal what a magic item does.
Attunement
Some magic items require a creature to form a bond with them before their magical properties can be used. This bond is called attunement, and certain items have a prerequisite for it. If the prerequisite is a class, a creature must be a member of that class to attune to the item. (If the class is a spellcasting class, a monster qualifies if that monster has spell slots and uses that class's spell list.)
Without becoming attuned to an item that requires attunement, a creature gains only its nonmagical benefits, unless its description states otherwise. For example, a magic shield that requires attunement provides the benefits of a normal shield to a creature not attuned to it, but none of its magical properties.
Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can't be the same short rest used to learn the item's properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a weapon), meditation (for a wondrous item), or some other appropriate activity. If the short rest is interrupted, the attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words.
An item can be attuned to only one creature at a time and a creature can he attuned to no more than three magic items at a time. Any attempt to attune to a fourth item fails; the creature must end its attunement to an item first. Additionally, a creature can’t attune to more than one copy of an item. For example, a creature can’t attune to more than one ring of Protection at a time.
A creature's attunement to an item ends if the creature no longer satisfies the prerequisites for attunement, if the item has been more than 100 feet away for at least 24 hours, if the creature dies, or if another creature attunes to the item. A creature can also voluntarily end attunement by spending another Short Rest focused on the item, unless the item is cursed.
Cursed Items
Some magic items bear curses that bedevil their users, sometimes long after a user has stopped using an item. A magic item's description specifies whether the item is cursed. Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it.
(OOC - Well, we've been carrying the Runestones around for a while now, certainly thru several short and long rests. Have we discovered anything more about them?)
Well, we've been carrying the Runestones around for a while now
Technically speaking, I think your mounts have been carrying them.
Originally Posted by Zeim
certainly thru several short and long rests
Yes, but identification requires "being in physical contact with the item" and the lightning-associated rune was put in a pack and nobody has mentioned focusing on it for an hour.
Certainly if there were a risk of being cursed by such activity, your DM wouldn't just assume someone did it, would they?
Aqua - Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like those who are going outside will not have any LOS to the Trolls by the stable doors, or am I mistaken?
In theory Kriv could action surge or expeditious retreat into range, but yeah, this positioning seems one round too early. Let's get it so it matches up with what's been described and go from there.
By using Dash you swap your standard action for another move action. Note that you can't swap your move action for a second standard action. So, when you use Dash you still have a Bonus Action left to use. I mention that as I believe there are some spells available to several pcs that are Bonus Actions.)
Literally! This is definitely an edge case for Armour of Agathys but simply put, I haven't had a chance to use it yet so here goes!
Cast as a 2nd level spell, it only lasts as long as the 10 temp hit points last and does 10 damage in return. So it's perfect for melee mobs with good attack bonuses but low damage. Trolls aren't low damage but I figured there's about a 33% chance I'll get two bursts out of it, for 20 damage. Otherwise just 10 damage.
If I used the 2nd level spell slot for a Divine Smite instead, that'd be +3d8 radiant damage for an average of 15. So this isn't the perfect situation for Armour of Agathys but it's not a terrible choice either, and it might be the only chance I get where it's even remotely feasible.
OOC: Sorry for being absent over the weekend. I over-Disneyed. Flying home tomorrow and will pick up then. To answer some questions: - yes, squares are 5 feet - when moving, every other diagonal counts as 2 (so 4 squares along a diagonal would count as 6, or 30 feet). This may be why some people have moved further; the "ruler" on roll20 doesn't count diagonal movement. I have let that slide for ranged weapons in combat since it's hard to count squares to every foe, but for movement let's stick to the official rules. - you can assume you learned basic knowledge about the denizens of the Evermoors (mostly "giants" which includes "trolls") from Vordana while she was with you, particularly after the Giant encounter that took Glork away. Some lore drops have occurred in RP as well that you may have missed. - at least one of you has mentioned fire as important in combat. For outdoors that's probably not a concern. Inside the stables, do note there's a lot of straw around.
Quote: - when moving, every other diagonal counts as 2 (so 4 squares along a diagonal would count as 6, or 30 feet). This may be why some people have moved further; the "ruler" on roll20 doesn't count diagonal movement. I have let that slide for ranged weapons in combat since it's hard to count squares to every foe, but for movement let's stick to the official rules. -------- That is why hexes are so much freaking better for actual simulations. I still don't get why they fell into disuse.
Yes, agree. Hexes were much better. Just have spell AOE's all be based on radii and get rid of squares, rectangles, and such shapes completely. Much better for Cone shapes too. No more 1/2 squares.
Hexes, squares, triangles, zig-zag one foot at a time? It really doesn't matter. Try adding altitude to the mix! (I move 15 feet towards the 2 on a clock dial (with north as 12), then 8 feet to wards the 4 on the clock and 7 feet in the air. That's my move.... Uuuuuggggghhhh! If I cast a 20' radius fireball into a 20x20x10 room with one entrance, how much of the fireball will spill out into the corridor beyond? <groan>
ooc: The ruler in roll20 is configured according to DnD rules. See Combat movement - playing on a grid (Player's Handbook Page 192). In 5e each diagonal move is 5' and each vertical or horizontal move is 5' - the same. Aqua's running this any way he likes (it is Aqua's encounter) but for clarity, when I run again that's how it'll work.
OK, so I actually never saw that bit that the "default" movement doesn't penalize diagonals. Further down from that same link it says "(The rule for diagonal movement sacrifices realism for the sake of smooth play. The Dungeon Master’s Guide provides guidance on using a more realistic approach.)" and the DMG says "The Player’s Handbook presents a simple method for counting movement and measuring range on a grid: count every square as 5 feet, even if you’re moving diagonally. Though this is fast in play, it breaks the laws of geometry and is inaccurate over long distances. This optional rule provides more realism..." going on to describe the 5-10-5-10.
Given Nep's preference to use the "default" vs. the "pathfinder" rules, I hereby state we can use those rules. I don't think we've ever really clarified it and in reality it's not made that much difference in combat.
So use the roll20 ruler. A square is 5 feet in any direction. Physics be damned.
Except for spell AOEs. Draw circles on the map when relevant. Consistency be damned.
Hey kids! Smokey the Werebear here with a note of caution.
If your spell includes words to the effect of "A flammable object hit by this spell ignites if it isn’t being worn or carried" you should also note that if you miss your target, you are likely to hit something. Stone walls aren't flammable. Wooden doors are. Piles of hay/straw are very flammable.
Your friendly neighborhood DM will use some DMG guidance as well as suggestions from around the interwebs to adjudicate what happens to the miss.
If you're playing with fire, may the odds be ever in your favor.
(OOC - Aqua - As I understand Trolls if they take any Fire/Acid Damage they don't regenerate any damage that following round, regardless of the damage type. Wasn't the fire damage last round, or was that two rounds ago?)
OOC: Two! Kriv’s first shot was in round 1, that troll (3) went inside and everyone has been targeting the other (4) in the last two rounds (one without the door shield, one with). We just finished round 3.
Hey all! It's been a fun weekend and I've learned a ton!
I'd like to take a quick moment for some acknowledgements and general playstyle stuffs that probably would be in a "Session 0" in a F2F game.
First: The goal of this whole game is fun for everyone. I'm trying to do that, and if I'm running this game in a way that's not fun for you, please let me know so I can adjust appropriately.
Second: I'm new to DnD 5e, and am learning as I go (as are most of you). You all just have to learn your characters; I have to learn all of them and all the monsters too. It's likely I'm going to make mistakes. Feel free to call me out when (not if) I do.
Third: As a newbie to DMing, I'm going to default to RAW (Rules as Written) or RAI (Rules as Intended). One of the rules, however, is that the DM is allowed to change the rules! I recognize and appreciate the decades of experience of Neptune and Zeim, and they know much better when and why "house rules" are better for RAF (Rules as Fun). One day I'll be bending as many rules as they do for the right reasons. For now, I'm using training wheels.
Fourth: A lot of the game balance is intended for party sizes of 4-6. It's really really really hard to try to balance combat for 10 players (and also hard to be both an active player and DM in the same combat scene). That's one of the (OOC) reasons we're temporarily splitting parties, along with some good IC reasons. Another part of the balance is that I may be "buffing" monsters in ways that you might say "hey, that's not what that monster does". Surprise, surprise. Did you know there's a variant of a troll who when you chop its arm off, the arm can independently attack you (while the troll regrows its arm)? Not saying any of the current trolls in battle are that variant.
Fifth: I'm having an absolute blast running this. Combat, and even RP, never goes as I planned and I'm continually amazed by your creativity. Thank you for being the wonderfully creative people that you are.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled "fight creatures whose only weakness is fire inside a stables filled with flammable hay" program.
Yes, great job Aqua. You are a bit more stringent than Nep or I tend to be, but there is nothing wrong with that and it can often avoid confusion so move ahead! I love the Trolls in a hay filled barn situation. It has negated many of Zhu's normal options. I have found one Fire Spell on her sheet that doesn't say it ignites flammable objects so will be trying that one shortly.
Though I am relatively new to 5e, I have played a lot of other iterations of many games, including this one. I started with a little silver book called Chainmail back in 1976, so I can offer that you are doing things right!
The rule of cool, rule of fun, is always first, IMHO. You are doing great with that, and that is all that matters. Having fun is the entire point of the game.
Yeah, me too. It's amazing I ever found time to work when I worked! Busy as ever in retirement. We had my son, DIL and grandson up for the week. I thought I would have time to post but playing with toddlers is tiring
Interesting news coming out of Wizards of the Coast. I bring it up here because of the only constant in this multiverse: change. They've partnered with Foundry VTT. I don't know exactly what the implications are but I'm sure that it's not good for Roll20 and there seems to be a disconnection now with DnDBeyond.
The announcement is here: Foundry VTT and Wizards of the Coast. I'm not sure what it means but software and business partnerships evolve. The impact on our game should be insignificant.
Yeah, I think Wizards have wanted to politely usher Roll20 out of their party for a while. When D&D 6e comes out, with its new restrictive licence, I don't think Roll20 will have nearly as much integration.
Well ... unless I missed something (certainly possible) ... it doesn't sound like 'they' can change the past, so Roll20 should probably be able to continue working for the current and past versions.
Wizards (Hasbro( underwent some major layoffs recently and money is everything in the corporate world. The real nasty of all this is access to the books on Foundry. What they said last year may not apply next year.
I can understand the move away from Roll20 as it's inferior to Foundry. OTOH, it's actually easier to use Roll20 at this time. What yesterday's release does is integrate the excellent foundry tech that has to be cobbled together by quasi-programmer DMs into an encapsulated solution for D&D. My brother and I are running games on Foundry and it's great when it works but we're both highly technical and can handle it. We're giving the new versions of the modules on Foundry a lot of time to iron out the bugs and get a sense of how other DMs feel about it before leaping forward.
The problem is we have technical issues practically every time we play, and some take a very long time to work out or can't be worked out at all. At least Roll20 has fewer of those, some, but fewer. Foundry seems so complex that there are glitches everywhere.
Zeim, My brother is too focused on the tech issues. When I encounter them we move ahead without some of the tech. As with anything tech there can be many points of failure. One tech issue that did stop play in his game was a client-side misconfiguration that didn't allow use of the GPU. So the player got a black screen instead of seeing the map.
I'll try to explain the tech difference between Roll20 and Foundry.
Roll20 allow tech bolt-on enhancements and automations vi APIs to those who pay for premium service. Otherwise it's pretty vanilla. I have (still have) the pro-level premium service which allows me to. Pulling and syncing character data from DnDBeyond to Roll20 requires that premium level. And even with these APIs, there is little that lets the geek affect the environment in a major way. If you recall, we had to, as players, write macros to do that (Doug did that for us).
Foundry facilitates the building of modules that enhance the experience. So if I am a programmer and want to write software that automates a function, I can. And they have. While the ability to draw walls that prevent movement, handle lighting of all sorts, doors of all sorts (locked, invisible, transparent, one-way, etc.) that work are built into the base software. But there are modules that automate complex sequences and apply complex rules. And these modules work together to provide a really amazing experience. For instance, a barbarian that rages has a lot of things. Here's what it does:
Quote
In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter a rage as a bonus action.
While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:
You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws. When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table. You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.
Once you have raged the number of times shown for your barbarian level in the Rages column of the Barbarian table, you must finish a long rest before you can rage again.
So, taken all together that's a lot to track. Roll20 doesn't do that. The DM and player have to. In Foundry that's taken care of by a combination of several modules that are designed to work together.
Some of these modules cost money. Take a look at this video to see what's possible and understand why WOTC wants to partner with thee guys and their open-source developer teams.
I thought Hasbro gave up on the restrictive license after serious pushback from players?
Yes, so they decided not to retroactively change the licence that 5th Ed was released under. In theory it'll stay the same. But D&D 6th Ed or One D&D or whatever they call it, will have a new licence that will be more restrictive and do what Hasbro want it to do. That's my understanding of the situation anyway.
And man, if anyone ever uses Foundry to throw a grenade in Shadowrun it'll probably break the internet!
AquaDyne, sorry for the delay btw. I'm cramming in a lot at the moment prior to being stuck on jury service for the next two weeks minimum.
.... I was notified that my mom (who passed away 2 years ago) was just called for Jury Duty. I am debating whether to bother to tell them or let them send more and more stringent notices and threaten her with arrest.......
Actually ... at least in the US ... your employer can 'petition' to have them let you off the hook because it would cause problems for the business. Won't work all the time, but depending on who the company is ... maybe <wink>
I live in a rural area, so when our time comes, we serve a bit more than other places. Last time I was called up, I served on three different juries in a two-week span. But never anything like that...
Well I start my second week tomorrow and I have to say it's the most tedious and frustrating experience I think I've ever had. There's more waiting around than on an international flight!
It's been three days since this post. I figure we can wait another day and if necessary ghost.
If needed I might ask Nep or Zeim to ghost, as I'm in the awkward spot of playing both the NPCs before and a PC after Davroar's turn and would prefer an unbiased move selection.
I struck out the errant post about the fires since there aren't any to deal with.
The question was raised about healing. Sindar doesn't have any healing spells memorized, and there has been a discussion about the changes at DnDBeyond with regard to bard spells.
Do bards have a way to cast a spell they know, but aren't memorized? They don't do the book thing, though I suppose sheet music might apply. I just want to figure out how it works in the fiction so that I can write it up, if it is a possibility.
What I had in mind when I said that was Song of Rest which can help aid the party's own healing (with use of hit dice). I hadn't checked in detail on Sindar's sheet to see what else he could cast, and you're right that he doesn't have much other help here.
But between Davroar and Aubric and hit dice and potions, there's plenty of healing around.
Note: we should sequence this intelligently. Aubric can hand out 35 hp among targets (twice) that restore up to half the target's total HP so that should be done first as a baseline before doing other spells/potions/hit dice that do more. At some point I'll math it out ... if it's relevant. If you're going to hang around town more than a day it's likely not worth the effort to track to that level of detail.... unless there's another attack
FYI, I retcon-edited Aubric channeling divinity to bring Arus and Pavel up to half their HP total before departing on the troll tracking trip. That will give them a good head start for additional potions/hit dice/spells/etc.
Pande - Note, Bards don't need to memorize spells. They can cast any spell they know at any time, limited only by how many spells per day that are allowed at their current level. If you have ANY healing spells among your known list you can always cast it until you run out of spell slots.
We've had an extended PM discussion on that as a result of a comment I made earlier, so you may be missing some of the context of that and my suggestion that Sindar use spells (that he doesn't "know").
Lots of good things about being a bard, and can be pretty powerful, but in exchange you are limited in having to choose what you "know" so can't swap out at will like some other classes.
Yes, just as other classes that do not need to memorize (Sorcerors, Warlocks, etc) you have to choose spells for your "available" list, but you don't have to specify which ones you want to cast each day. It can make selecting spells for your "known" list a little bit different.
Some spellcasting classes, like clerics, know ALL the spells for their class and need to memorize the ones they'll use between long rests. So, if you're a cleric, and you need a spell but didn't memorize it, you need to take a long rest to make it available to after you change your prepared spell list.
Other classes, like bard, only know a limited number of bard spells but you don't need to memorize them. You have slots available to just use them.
....and others, like Wizard, need both. They have a list of spells in their "spellbook" that they know (a sub-selection of the whole list), but they also must choose from that limited list and memorize an even smaller selection each day. Again, if they chose the wrong spells for that day they're out of luck. That is why I like spellcasting classes like Bard, Sorceror, Warlock, etc. Fewer spells but more freedom and flexibility.
I understand Zeim's point, the confusion arises from figuring out the limited bard list. We worked out that one spell that was on his list couldn't be due to level and making it a bard spell elements. I guess I will have to go to DnD Beyond and figure out what are bard spells so that I have that list handy.
So you can choose 3 Cantrips plus 10 other spells of any level 1-4 to "Know". Then you can cast those 10 spells each day based on the slots above. You don't have to align the spells you know with the slot limits, in fact you'll note that you actually have one more slot than spells known.
Theoretically, forex, you could have only 1 First level spell and 1 Second Level spell that you know and then have 4 3rd's and 4 4th's. This would give you great flexibility with high level spells but limit your options for low levels. Still, you could cast that 1 1st level spell that you know 4 times every day (more if you use higher level slots to do it). So choose what you want, regardless of level. I would just make sure you pick at least one spell of each level to know and go from there.
In fact, Zhu has this. The only first level spell she "knows" is Magic Missile. Every time you gain a level you get to swap out one spell for any other spell of any level you are able to cast, so it is possible she might add another 1st level spell later on by removing a higher level spell from her known spell list.
Sindar has two Wizard spells as bard spells, one is Eldritch Blast, the other we are still deciding. It was a 4th level spell, which it turns out was broken, so has to be rechosen. Probably going to pick Lightning Bolt to offer a variety to what the party has, but I haven't decided. It has to be 3rd level or below for the spell, and it becomes a bard spell for him.
Thanks for the additional clarification, that helps a lot!
So, Meta-gaming: Just as an FYI, Zhu is an "Evoker" type, which means that her spells are almost all direct damage spells (with the notable higher level exceptions of Slow, Confusion, and Banishment). She has Lightning Bolt and Fireball, for instance, but doesn't have spells like Hold Person, Invisibility, Charms or Summoning spells of any kind and so on, so for variety across the party Charms, Holds, and Summonings would be good.
Now, that said, IF Sindar ends up going in the other party from Zhu, then having 3rd/4th level direct damage spells for that other party would be helpful.
Pande, I am running games on Foundry and using DnDBeyond for characters ... at this moment. There are shakeups at WOTC and we have to see how that pans out.
Zeim, I'll be running the party that includes both Zhu and Sindar.
Have you guys decided on the split? Jaliera tried to have the discussion in character the previous night but it didn't come off. It would be nice to know your thinking so we can have a chance to input. Thanks!
I thought it had been discussed in detail, with a list of pcs at one point. I remember mentioning the issue of the Healing and Arcane Magic split between the groups and Neptune said that was why the two new characters had been added, to give that balance. I am sure Jaliera is going with Davroar, but I don't recall all of the rest.
Gypsy, We did, or at least I posted it here but for clarity, here it is again:
Quote
Let's try and clear up the fog a bit. There's a natural division and I think you'll see it makes some sense. Individual missions and objectives helped make it simple.
There are 3 members of the Emerald Enclave: Bern, Davroar and Zindra. They are open about that. Jaliera is not about to leave Davroar's side and she's friends with Pavel. There's that five and since the doppelganger is Bern's problem, and I'm playing Zindra that quintet will be Aquadyne's to deal with.
There are several in the party with reasons to track down Forkbeard and make their way to Everlund and eventually Silverymoon. Zhu, Kriv, Sindar, Arus and Aubric will head the other way and will have to deal with me a DM.
This is not designed to be a permanent break up. Meri and Pippin head one way, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli head elsewhere and Frodo goes off with Samwise. Eventually they find their way back to each other.
Party split will be: Aquadyne will DM: Bern, Davroar, Jaliera, Zindra and Pavel Neptune will DM: Zhu, Kriv, Sindar, Arus and Aubric
There may be an option for an intermediate goal before the above-mentioned split, in which groups of characters may split off on different goals in and around Calling Horns. Much like how in Yartar several groups went off in different ways. If that happens, it's entirely RP-dependent, and won't be forced on anyone by the DM. As one example, Kriv seemed interested in seeing where those trolls came from. He tracked them as far as the gate, but perhaps there's more to this story?
And I've been dropping so many plot hooks I'm sure I'll catch a fish at some point.
But there is loot to be had in multiple places for the adventurous.
Hey peeps! The RP thread seems a bit .... stalled.
Maybe I suck at playing Tamalin. Maybe I'm holding back too much on the snark that Aubric would bring. Maybe everyone's busy.
In the interest of metagaming, here's the scoop: - if you like combat, you should say "Hey, I want to go track those trolls and see what happens!" I promise fun and the chance to use fireballs. I will also do my best to kill you. Or at least get you to 0 HP at least once in a battle. - if you want to roleplay and not fight, I've dropped tons of hooks on stuff around town that you can say "hey, you guys go chase trolls, I'm gonna investigate these leads around town." Blacksmith? Witch? That little kid that seems to be lurking everywhere and probably knows far more than anyone has bothered to ask him? Those mysterious guards that are always watching?
You don't suck! A lot of games are slow at the moment as various people are not posting due to RL interfering with their gaming time or the desire for gaming. This has a knock on effect to other characters and to the motivation of others who find less to post to overall on the site. I'm hoping Easter will provide some time but happy if it happens earlier.
(OOC - According to what I've read/heard in this thread I was under the impression we are aware Everlund left the Lord's Alliance due to a vote of their council with Tamalin's relative casting the deciding vote. Is that not so? Why she/he cast that vote I haven't heard explained.)
(OOC - According to what I've read/heard in this thread I was under the impression we are aware Everlund left the Lord's Alliance due to a vote of their council with Tamalin's relative casting the deciding vote. Is that not so? Why she/he cast that vote I haven't heard explained.)
OOC: Aubric related a fact to some of you that the vote to leave the the alliance was 3-2. And a Zoar was one of the one of the three who voted to leave. Aubric did not know nor explain why. However, for those of you who may want to perhaps further investigate, I would suggest getting a Letter of Recommendation is a great start to asking around for more info.
I ran an introductory game recently for some friends, using A Most Potent Brew, which I think is the best 1st level introductory adventure out there for 5th Ed.
But what I wanted to talk about was character creation. I created some pre-gens using the new rules in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything that are supposed to prelude the rules changes in 6th Ed.
"Customizing your Origin" gave me the most pause for thought.
Basically, you choose how to allocate your race's ability score increases.
So a mountain dwarf would usually get +2 Con, +2 Str but you can now choose +2 Dex, +2 Int and play a wizard, for example.
A lot of commentators have said this prevents power-gaming but you can probably see from my example above it doesn't. Mountain dwarf gets +2, +2 ability score increases (half-elf gets +2, +1, +1). That's better than any other race's +2, +1.
It also means if you want to play a fighter, say, and want a stout halfling's brilliant racial traits, you now can and have a +2 Str, +1 Con too.
Does this make the rule change bad?? I was definitely against it initially and said so here on DreamLyrics, but I think I'm converted. Mountain dwarves and half-elves are an anomaly, yes, but easily fixed in the future. What changed my mind was not having to worry about ability score increases at all, full stop. Want to play a half-orc? Go ahead and pick a class, it will work with half-orc just fine. It's liberating.
It also buffs every race to be a little more comparable to variant human, which is good for variety.
Importantly, this rule applies to player characters only. Half-orcs are still generally stronger than halflings, for example. It's player characters that are exceptional.
The rule change also allows you to swap out racial weapon and skill proficiencies but I didn't get much mileage out of this. You could swap your half-orc wizard's Intimidation skill to Arcana, for example, but characters generally get four skills and four is generally enough to encapsulate your concept. It's minor but means if you don't want your half-orc to be menacing they don't have to be.
Finally, if you've used the rules to create a high elf fighter, elf weapon training won't be completely wasted because you can change the proficiencies to tools instead.
Revised Ranger is still a good option but it only works properly with the subclasses in the UA document and doesn't work well with multiclassing either.
The new ranger class features in Tasha's fix that very elegantly, whilst also dramatically improving the ranger class. I would now heartily recommend using Tasha's ranger instead of the Revised Ranger. It's simpler and interacts with the rest of D&D better.
Note there aren't any new class features that improve monk very much but Tasha's does contain an optional rule allowing you to change subclass. So if you're stuck as a four elements monk you could ask to change to ascendant dragon, for example, and not suck so badly whilst retaining most of your flavour.
I hope you found that little commentary interesting. Any of you guys have an opinion on the above?
True, that's a definite downside to updating the rules in supplemental books. It makes 5th Ed less approachable and creates a demand for a tidied up new edition.
Contrary to what the commentators have said, it sounds like this actually increases power gaming and min-maxing. You can take the best of any class (Skills, Stats, Abilities, etc) and pile them all on top of each other to create a more powerful 1st level pc than you could before where you were constrained and the abilities/skills/stats were spread out across the different races.
And besides, I like my dwarves as fighters, elves as mages, halflings as thieves, etc. I don't care if its a stereotype.
I find the commentary interesting. It also gives me a tiny bit more hope for DnD The 6th. I was feeling pretty underwhelmed. Like this would be a 5.05 version or something.
So I don't thing the GM Binder stuff is official (but who does that ever stop?)
I gave out the "UA revised ranger" (which, BTW, has been scratched by WOTC) and then a player took the Dread Ambusher build from Tashas and stacked it with the UA ranger. I regretted it the moment I saw how power-gamey it was. Not an issue for me. I have experience with power-gamers (Zeim! et al) and the player gave the PC up after I targeted all his weaknesses and buffed the monsters (power game me, will ya? Bwahahahaha).
Like Zeim, I like strong racial species characteristics. I really don't like multi-class, build your own PCs either. It's what made D&D 3.5 my least favorite version. I speak mostly as a DM. As for 6e, let's see. IMO it's change for the sake of change (make more moolah) and so I shrug.
Yeah, you've got a core base and the only two methods of generating income is to grow the base or to roll out a new version that requires everyone in your base to repurchase the game. Which one sounds more lucrative?
And now, because all the books are only going to be available online, by subscription, when they come up with a new version the old versions will disappear but you'll need to pay.
ooc: Zeim, I've actually used the 1 hour rule for a while. And with our last face to face game, I was using gritty reality so a short rest was 8 hours and a long rest 7 days! And the version we were playing that you remember was a 5 minute short rest.
In this game we've been using the standard option.
For reference:
Code
Option Short rest Long rest
Code
Standard 1 hour 8 hours
Epic Heroism 5 minutes 1 hour
Gritty Realism 8 hours 7 days
(OOC - Good to know, although I am fairly sure when we played Phandelver and we shared a Warlock PC that we were using less than 1 hour short rest...... <g>)
(OOC - Yes, that was what I remembered too. The main impacts of less time for a short rest are a big benefit to Warlocks (of which we have none currently), and being able to identify magic items and use healing dice faster. Otherwise not much difference.)
OOC: outside of combat we haven’t really been tracking time much.
But I don’t think it’s right to completely eliminate any benefit of the (class limited) Identify spell as ritual by making the same thing possible by anyone in the same amount of time.
OOC: My bad on that... I misread Identify... for some reason was thinking it was a 1hr cast time.
1 minute for the spell, but your class has it available as a ritual at the cost of 10 minutes (so 11 minutes total) but without expending a spell slot.
Identify as a ritual is a pretty small item in the overall scheme of things I think, isn't it? The bigger problem, IMO, is in dungeon crawl/heavy-combat style games having to rest for a full hour in order to use any healing dice. I've played n campaigns where in order to rest at all the party had to use an Extradimensional Space or they were continually attacked every few turns.
Identify as a ritual is a pretty small item in the overall scheme of things I think, isn't it?
Yes, but it's a representative example of the balance inherent in the game. If you tweak one thing without tweaking the whole system, you completely eliminate the need for a spell so useful it's already nerfed with a 1-minute delay (instead of one action) to prevent it from being spammed.
Or heck, 1-hour long rest would probably even make an entire character class useless. I chose a cleric whose primary utility is healing. But if everyone can fully heal by just waiting around an hour, why bother? I'd be (nearly) completely useless in this campaign. Which is fine, if I know that's the rule going in. I'd pick a different character. We'd have an all-fighting party and load up on healing potions.
Originally Posted by Zeim
The bigger problem, IMO, is in dungeon crawl/heavy-combat style games having to rest for a full hour in order to use any healing dice.
If we were in a dungeon crawl game I'd be in favor of shortening it. But we're not. We're traversing miles of open territory that take days to get to the next place. I've been throwing an average of one random encounter per 12 hours at you, where night-time ones impact your ability to rest. If you want 1 hour long rests, expect more frequent random encounters and you'll never get anywhere. I don't think we want that in this game.
Originally Posted by Zeim
I am fine either way, just trying to clarify.
Given the amount of travel time in this game, I'd have preferred the "Gritty Realism" option.
In reality, other than combat we're not tracking time much beyond "hey, we should probably get back to the inn before dark" and the difference in 10m vs 1h is hardly relevant here beyond that.
Ultimately it is your game, so you get to choose. As you say it doesn't make a lot of difference. It is just something that we as players had expected (10 mins). Yet in reality it is different. It hasn't presented any issues, but it certainly can.
I've been running for school kids recently so I explained short rests as morning break and lunch break, and long rest as bedtime. Although that equates to three intervals a day for short rests, in general it's meant only two short rest intervals because of travel time to the adventure locations. Which is basically the same as the standard rules.
Ultimately it is your game, so you get to choose. As you say it doesn't make a lot of difference. It is just something that we as players had expected (10 mins). Yet in reality it is different. It hasn't presented any issues, but it certainly can.
Actually it’s Nep’s game.
And I’m new enough to 5e that I’m defaulting to standard rules unless I’m seeing longstanding exceptions otherwise.
Officially you can consider my ruling “a short rest is N minutes” and ritual spells take N/6 minutes. Fair?
Nem's equating a short rest to a those school breaks is pretty accurate. It is precisely what translates into the concept of an adventuring day. The DMG recommends that in an "adventure day" there are 6 major encounters and the parry would need 2 short rests before a long rest. So it's a lunch break and an afternoon (tea?) break before settling in for the night.
There's a very geeky chart to help plot out advancement. It might interest you, check this out. I do this pretty for every game that I run. In fact, I have a spreadsheet that helps me figure out what to do.
As for the rest options, I certainly will keep using the standard option.
Epic heroism is for your video game dungeon crawls where every room can be a deadly encounter. This game is nothing like that.
I used gritty realism when running Tomb of Annihilation. The premise of that game is that there's a curse on the land that prevents and limits magical healing. I eventually got to the point where no magical healing spells worked and only potions of healing did.`
This is fantasy, not reality so you can cast your spells, clean and dress your wounds, have a snack, take care of biological needs, wipe the blood and ichor off of your weapons, shut your eyes for a few minutes, perform a ritual and so on during a 1 hour short rest.
Recently I've been running Dragon of Icespire Peak for a group and there's an encounter at the beginning with a manticore outside a windmill.
The four PCs are all 1st level and completely new to role-playing games: Halfling ranger, half-elf druid, human rogue and dwarf fighter. Not even a cleric or wizard.
The adventure suggests the PCs should negotiate because the manticore (CR 3) is too powerful for them and I anticipated they wouldn't and I might have a TPK on my hands if I didn't fudge the encounter.
Of course the PCs didn't negotiate with the manticore, they got stuck in and murdered it. It dropped the ranger to 0 hp but wasted two rounds trying hit the fighter with his AC 17 and only dropping him to 6 hp.
Anyway, I rolled openly and didn't need to fudge anything. I'm fine with that but it reminded me how dubious the challenge ratings are in 5e. Have you guys experienced anything similar with 5e?
I have a lot of issues with the 5e challenge ratings. According to the DnDBeyond encounter builder that was a "deadly" encounter. I would have called that a fair fight but it all depends on how you ran the encounter. Did the maticore fly around out of typical missile range, behind buildings only to emerge and fire spikes from it's tail? Did you give it cover and penalize PCs for long range attacks? Or did you let the PCs gang up on it on the ground?
5e is awfully spongy. I understand that PF2 is way more mathematically balanced, and a threat rating really means something. Though to be fair I am at the stage in my life when I don't want to run really mechanistic or crunch games, so many new rules to memorize. So I haven't braved PF2 even though I have a ton of the books.
Not sure what "spongy" means or implies but the logic behind the math is nonexistent.
There's a supposed formula to calculating a monster's CR but if you try to use it I guarantee you that grey matter will start oozing from your ears, you'll be crying tears of blood and froth will dribble down the corners of your mouth if you don't give up soon enough.
Agree with Nep, Neal. The Difficulty rating of an encounter is dramatically more impacted by the tactics used by the foe than by their HPs and attack/damage dice. A small gang of Goblins, who maximize their bonuses and use good tactics can be a much deadlier encounter than a much high CR monster who does not. Neps tactics are quite good (Naturally), and using them would limit the pcs to missile weapons or the druid's 1st level spells (which are VERY limited for damage or against a flying foe).
Also, if the pcs had shortbows, the Manticore could even stay at short range for itself while at long range for the pcs (anywhere between 80-100 feet distance) which would give it no penalty to its tail spike attacks but give the pcs disadvantage on their missile attacks. If it hid behind the windmill and flew out to shoot its tail spikes and then returned behind the windmill for cover, that would make it even harder.
If it just landed in their midst and let all of them hack away at it while it attacked the best armored enemy every turn then it would be much easier than a CR3.
Of course using optimal tactics like that with a brand new set of players could easily drive them away from coming back to play <g>.
I would add that the environment makes a difference.
1st level PCs fighting a manticore on flat ground at 1st level could be easy. Fighting a (Lava Child (Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage - also CR 3) while crossing a narrow, rickety, burning footbridge to get to the other side of a river of flowing lava might be deadly.
For an experienced DM this is math that we don't need. I can look at a stat block and determine that it's a cakewalk and I know what needs to be done to balance it out. For a novice DM this is a huge challenge.
I recently replied to a Reddit thread which said something like "My four 1st level PCs killed XYZ". XYZ was supposed to be the party mentor, the person that provided leads. Aside from that huge issue, XYZ was a level 8 necromancer with 4th level spells with 6 companion "monsters" and a familiar.
My curt response was "Then the DM did something wrong". Aside from how this would break the DM's game, there's no way a party of four 1st level PCs should have lived past the first round against XYZ.
The manticore starts the encounter on the ground at Umbrage Hill and he was third in initiative order, allowing the ranger and fighter to melee it. I figured the manticore would chew through two of them in two rounds so I had it stay and fight rather than waste a round disengaging or suffering free attacks to take off.
It certainly would've been a closer fight if the manticore had been aerial using its tail spikes. I suppose at the heart of the matter is the swinginess of the d20 itself. I wasted an entire turn trying to hit that AC 17 dwarf.
A mean DM would have disengaged, had the manticore fly behind the structure to gain cover. It would use half it's move to emerge to shoot spikes before flying back for cover. Flying is a huge advantage. So is cover.
Yes, and so is playing the tactical game of staying at long range for the pcs to give them disadvantage on their attacks. Top of the windmill would probably work for that too.
Aye, I think you're right and the challenge rating probably tries to account for that. I just saw 68 hp and three attacks and assumed it'd be extremely deadly without much tactical manouevring. Having said that, if it had dropped the dwarf, it then would've been free to take off and I think the remaining bard and rogue would've been in deep trouble. So perhaps it all hinged on that round of whiffing on the AC 17 dwarf.
OK, so the current situation brings up the old discussion of "if you split a troll in two do you get two trolls or does only one part regrow and the other part dies?"
Yes. There's an arm. Why didn't it grow into another Troll? Is it that when a part is chopped off a Troll the only part that regrows is:
- The part with the head? - The part with the heart? - The part that contains > 50% of the body mass? - The parts are able to "move/slither" back together to reattach? - Other?
I am thinking if all parts grow into new Trolls that an effective tactic for Trolls in combat would be to cut off their fingers and toes and 20 new Trolls appear!
I am thinking if all parts grow into new Trolls that an effective tactic for Trolls in combat would be to cut off their fingers and toes and 20 new Trolls appear!
Yes. There's an arm. Why didn't it grow into another Troll? Is it that when a part is chopped off a Troll the only part that regrows is:
- The part with the head? - The part with the heart? - The part that contains > 50% of the body mass? - The parts are able to "move/slither" back together to reattach? - Other?
I am thinking if all parts grow into new Trolls that an effective tactic for Trolls in combat would be to cut off their fingers and toes and 20 new Trolls appear!
Well, it's not the head. RAW, the monster manual says thus:
Quote
If the monster loses an arm, a leg, or even its head, those dismembered parts can sometimes act with a life of their own. A troll can even reattach severed body parts, untroubled by its momentary disability. Only acid and fire can arrest the regenerative properties of a troll's flesh.
This reddit thread directly answers your question with a "well it's not in the rules" but suggests the part with the heart. In 3E the rule actually specified the largest part.
Note the detached parts can act with a life of their own, so you could in theory be attacked by the troll's arm separately from the troll itself. Or even the head could bite your legs off.
Loathsome Limbs: Whenever the troll takes at least 15 slashing damage at one time, roll a d20 to determine what else happens to it: 1-10: Nothing else happens. 11-14: One leg is severed from the troll if it has any legs left. 15- 18: One arm is severed from the troll if it has any arms left. 19-20: The troll is decapitated, but the troll dies only if it can't regenerate.
If it dies, so does the severed head. If the troll finishes a short or long rest without reattaching a severed limb or head, the part regrows. At that point, the severed part dies. Until then, a severed part acts on the troll's initiative and has its own action and movement. A severed part has AC 13, 10 hit points, and the troll's Regeneration trait.
A severed leg is unable to attack and has a speed of 5 feet.
A severed arm has a speed of 5 feet and can make one claw attack on its turn, with disadvantage on the attack roll unless the troll can see the arm and its target. Each time the troll loses an arm, it loses a claw attack.
If its head is severed, the troll loses its bite attack and its body is blinded unless the head can see it. The severed head has a speed of 0 feet and the troll's Keen Smell trait. It can make a bite attack but only against a target in its space.
The troll's speed is halved if it's missing a leg. If it loses both legs, it falls prone. If it has both arms, it can crawl. With only one arm, it can still crawl, but its speed is halved. With no arms or legs, its speed is 0, and it can't benefit from bonuses to speed.
As far as regrowing, while it's not specified it seems the best direct rule is the Regenerate spell
Quote
For the duration of the spell, the target regains 1 hit point at the start of each of its turns (10 hit points each minute).
The target's severed body members (fingers, legs, tails, and so on), if any, are restored after 2 minutes. If you have the severed part and hold it to the stump, the spell instantaneously causes the limb to knit to the stump.
Given 10x faster regeneration, it seems it'd take about 12 seconds for a troll to regenerate an appendage, although I suspect it'd be a DM's call whether it would happen in-combat or after a short rest.
Elsewhere on the interwebs, it suggests both halves grow into their own smaller troll. (In which case you could keep subdividing them into smaller and smaller trolls.) Given the "loathsome limbs" specificity that regrowing a limb means the detached one dies, it does seem there is at least a consistency with the laws of physics, e.g., "Conservation of Troll". I'd interpret that in-game as splitting the HP and attacks, etc. between the pieces, so the total troll "stats" are never more than the original.
Well, the Reddit thread isn't RAW. It all makes for fun conversation. That's one reason why I only deal with hit points down and never about where wounds are taken. So I just need to deal with those hit points.
Well, the Reddit thread isn't RAW. It all makes for fun conversation. That's one reason why I only deal with hit points down and never about where wounds are taken. So I just need to deal with those hit points.
Isn't the entire concept of sawing a troll in two just a fun conversation? If it comes up in RP I'll make a real ruling
The Loathsome Limbs variant does seem fun and well-defined as a defined monster manual variant. It ties the troll's actual attacks to each of its limbs which can independently use the attacks. So you could have a decapitated armless troll on one side, plus two troll arms and a troll head surrounding you, all attacking with flanking advantage . And they each have 10hp (which all independently regenerate separate from the regeneration of the troll itself) and only get created with a -15hp hit...
Hmm, maybe this giant you're hunting will rip the troll into 4 pieces and attack you with them!
I particularly dislike using the phrase "RAW". There really is no such thing. ALL rules are as interpreted (usually by the DM but sometimes by players too). Every person can read what is written in the rules and come to completely different conclusions about what it means, so "RAW" is often nonsense. Worse, I have seen it used in on-line discussion for the sole purpose of trying to shut down conversation and for one person to "prove" he is right.
I know how you feel, but I disagree with you. There's a lot of loopholes and there are options in the game but RAW is real. When there are questions, there are also official answers but on rare occasions the official adjudications are inadequate. And when it comes to most interpretations of those rules, Jeremy Crawford is universally accepted as the last word.
DMs can work with the rules is to put an end to debates by saying "this is how I interpret RAW" but that can piss off players who just want to get their way. Because yes, it is used specifically to shut down the conversation arguing which at a table becomes rules lawyering, steals playing time from players and diminishes from the enjoyment of the game.
Here we have OOC and I'm fine with having endless debates because it doesn't cut into the actual play time. But in a FTF games it shouldn't be tolerated.
I particularly dislike using the phrase "RAW". There really is no such thing. ALL rules are as interpreted (usually by the DM but sometimes by players too).
At the end of the day, D&D is a game. What’s most important while engaged in these epic roleplaying scenarios is having fun.
Your DM has to make the final decisions on the fate of the characters in your collective imaginary world. They are the authority. Not Wizards of the Coast, the internet, or even fellow players get to make the final call on a rules decision in your own campaign.
Sure, we provide reference materials for setting up your campaigns, but your world is your own to explore and make memories in. Don’t forget to have a good time while doing so.
Nep - If the rules were "RAW" (ie written clearly) there would be no need to send questions to Jeremy Crawford. The simple fact that there is a need for an arbiter proves that "RAW" is nonsense.
Maybe the troll regeneration thing is a question of blood purity. If a troll has regenerated tons, i.e., is a troll with a more diluted blood line, its stuff does what the arm did here.
But maybe a more pure troll could do as Zeim suggests, chop fingers and toss little trolls into the battle.
It could be an interesting way to vary up the base monster "troll".
The other variants take different spots in the spectrum of what a troll regenerates.
I think I have a new version of lore for my game.
Thanks guys!
As far as RAW vs blah, Zeim is right it is a tool used badly in online forums. Most rules are written in a way that several interpretations can obviously be made. That is why I always start with "it is your game..." or your table if you prefer. It is a GM's world, and that should enhance the fun of the game, not shut things down.
And I fall in the camp of RAW or any other interpretation is exactly that, incase that isn't abundantly clear. I have been doing this too long to waste time on unproductive elements. It is about fun, and this discussion is fun in its own way. Part of why I love PBEM/PBP.
Zeim, what you are saying is that there are "no laws" and I mean anywhere. Every court has a judge because not everything is black and white and nobody can come up for a rule for everything.
It is not that there are no laws, it is that laws are not black and white. There is no "RAW". That is why we have judges, SCOTUS, and so on. So the argument "that is what the law says" is false. The law says what judges interpret it to say. And any two judges can interpret it differently. Not to mention that interpretations change over time as well. What laws do is offer guardrails so society doesn't fall into chaos. You can't have people assaulting others, forex, without being arrested until a judge and jury can decide whether what they did broke the law or not. However that is why there is a phrase "innocent until proven guilty". Otherwise, if everything was black-and-white, there would be no need for judges, juries, or courts. Everyone would simply "know" that a person was guilty of a crime with no need for trial.
Same with "RAW". If it was so clear cut that there was simply no question, as the "RAW" proponents would like you to believe. then there would be no need for Jeremy Crawford (the SCOTUS of D&D) to rule on things.
We don't all talk like that over here! And I'm from the north! Some of our phrases include:
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Still, the day went well and the kids (I think an 11 and a 6 year old) seemed to love D&D.
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That's over 400 smackers and a monthly sub.
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